This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?

[Low-Q]

Hi,

I have twisted my mind about magnet motors again, and I have been playing with Femm again.

If there is nothing wrong with Femm, I have sucessfully figured out one way to change a magnetic field in a magnet motor without using energy. A very big model in femm shows an average torque of 350 000 Nm (The rotor is 7 meters in diameter. it is however no reason why it is so big). In that model I cannot in a simple way simulate the following explanation, so the average torque is assumed correct if I'm correct about the explanations below. To you guys who don't understand it, take a quick look at the drawing attached.

Imagine this:

You have, lets say 20, narrow rod magnets. The polarity is going through length on all of them.

Take 10 magnets and put them together side by side, and let every second magnet have the oposite polarity. Now all 10 magnets will snap into eachother, but let there be a gap between them anyway. This configuration will not attract or repel another magnetic pole as every second pole is an oposite of the next one.
Take then every second magnet, 5 pcs, and push them maybe half way along the length so you now see a comb looking magnet row, where mainly the southpole or northpole are visible in both sides of the twosided "comb". Now this configuration will suddenly attract or repel another magnet.

It takes energy to make this "comb", so we need a counter force which works in an equivalent oposite way. So take the 10 magnets you got left, and place them all side by side, but now with polarity in the same direction on ALL magnets. They will feel hard to align next to eachother, but do it anyway,

Now take every second magnet and move them half way of the length - just as the first 10 magnets, and make it look just like that "comb". This time it takes energy to PREVENT the magnets from moving.

If all magnets are equal, those two forces in the two sets of magnet "combs" will work oposite of eachother. So if you mechanicly connects those two sets of magnets together, it should not take any force to alter a magnetic pole.

So now let the magnet configuration as firstly described surround a two pole round magnet (which is magnetized through diameter) as a stator magnet would do, and let the second configuration be linked to this. So now it does not take energy from the rotor to alter the magnetic pole in the "magnet comb stator". Still the rotor will chase the oposite pole in the stator, and try to escape from the equal pole behind it without any counterforce working equally against the rotor direction. That counterforce is already taken care of.

Well, attached is a model in Femm with 20 sectors of combs which is supposed to alter polarity allways 90 degrees in front and behind the magnetic pole in the rotor. Take a look at it and see what I mean about the comb-configuration on the stator (Compensator magnets are not shown).

The rotor in the middle is rotating counter clockwise, and I'm also looking for the very possible flaw that prevents OU in the design and idea.

[Low-Q]

Some more information, some changes from the previous post etc., + a link to a GIF-animation on the bottom of this post.

The key is to equalize the counterforce required when altering magnetic fields.
The stator magnets are altering the magnetic field by pushing and pulling pairs of magnets, which each has oposite polarity facing the rotor magnet, in order to alter the magnetic field in a way that will allways pull and push the round two pole rotormagnet, in the center, in the same direction regardless of the rotors position.
To separate two magnets in the stator this way requires a lot of force. However, the forces required to alter the statormagnet are canceled out by the oposite force 90 degrees ahead and back. So no net force, hence no energy, is required to alter the magnetic fields in the stator. Here is the key to free energy from magnet motors - at least what I have calculated.

Where the magnet pairs is ligned up side by side, it provides least torque, about 40% of the torque provided when the magnet pairs are farthest apart. The good thing is that both conditions provides torque in the same direction - and every conditions between.

The poles of the rotor is in direction of the most purple coloured stator magnets.

I have used the program FEMM4.0 to simulate the torque. This model provides about 1000Nm torque in average in one complete revolution.

So where does the motor get the energy to alter the magnetic fields from? Nowhere. To alter the magnets does not require energy because there is no force that fights against the torque in the rotor. And we know that torque- or force times distance is energy. Left there is the torque from the rotor which infenitely will try to approach the sticky spot, and escape from the slippy spot. So there you go. A perpetual motion magnet motor with a lots of energy to spare.

PS! I am sceptical to perpetual motion. So any kind of feedback regarding flaws in the design are welcome. To state that "You cannot get energy from nothing" isn't a good explanation, so find the flaw and explain why if you want to 

Br.

Vidar


Here is a link to an animation of a simpler version - average torque is 850 000Nm in this one, but the model in FEMM is also VERY big:
http://lyd-interior.no/div/Magnet-alternator.gif

[Liberty]

Some more information, some changes from the previous post etc., + a link to a GIF-animation on the bottom of this post.

The key is to equalize the counterforce required when altering magnetic fields.
The stator magnets are altering the magnetic field by pushing and pulling pairs of magnets, which each has oposite polarity facing the rotor magnet, in order to alter the magnetic field in a way that will allways pull and push the round two pole rotormagnet, in the center, in the same direction regardless of the rotors position.
To separate two magnets in the stator this way requires a lot of force. However, the forces required to alter the statormagnet are canceled out by the oposite force 90 degrees ahead and back. So no net force, hence no energy, is required to alter the magnetic fields in the stator. Here is the key to free energy from magnet motors - at least what I have calculated.

Where the magnet pairs is ligned up side by side, it provides least torque, about 40% of the torque provided when the magnet pairs are farthest apart. The good thing is that both conditions provides torque in the same direction - and every conditions between.

The poles of the rotor is in direction of the most purple coloured stator magnets.

I have used the program FEMM4.0 to simulate the torque. This model provides about 1000Nm torque in average in one complete revolution.

So where does the motor get the energy to alter the magnetic fields from? Nowhere. To alter the magnets does not require energy because there is no force that fights against the torque in the rotor. And we know that torque- or force times distance is energy. Left there is the torque from the rotor which infenitely will try to approach the sticky spot, and escape from the slippy spot. So there you go. A perpetual motion magnet motor with a lots of energy to spare.

PS! I am sceptical to perpetual motion. So any kind of feedback regarding flaws in the design are welcome. To state that "You cannot get energy from nothing" isn't a good explanation, so find the flaw and explain why if you want to 

Br.

Vidar


Here is a link to an animation of a simpler version - average torque is 850 000Nm in this one, but the model in FEMM is also VERY big:
http://lyd-interior.no/div/Magnet-alternator.gif

I had to look at your design for a while to try to understand what all was going on and when it happens.  I do believe a magnet motor is possible, (so I am building one of my own design, but I do not use Femm in my calculations, just former experience from testing), however I think after looking at the animation that you have, there might be timing issues with the comb portion on this one if I understand it correctly.  In order to attract, an advance timing must be used to create torque.  In order to have thrust off of a repulsion field, energy input is needed with correct timing or there will be no thrust from repulsion.  I don't think that the magnetic fields will provide correct timing themselves in this manner by the force of magnetic field alone to provide thrust in the real world.  And if by chance the timing was right, energy input from torque else where in the motor would be needed at the correct time.  In my experience, the timing may require control and some energy input.  Very creative design.  Please feel free to correct me if I do not understand your device correctly.

[Low-Q]

I had to look at your design for a while to try to understand what all was going on and when it happens.  I do believe a magnet motor is possible, (so I am building one of my own design, but I do not use Femm in my calculations, just former experience from testing), however I think after looking at the animation that you have, there might be timing issues with the comb portion on this one if I understand it correctly.  In order to attract, an advance timing must be used to create torque.  In order to have thrust off of a repulsion field, energy input is needed with correct timing or there will be no thrust from repulsion.  I don't think that the magnetic fields will provide correct timing themselves in this manner by the force of magnetic field alone to provide thrust in the real world.  And if by chance the timing was right, energy input from torque else where in the motor would be needed at the correct time.  In my experience, the timing may require control and some energy input.  Very creative design.  Please feel free to correct me if I do not understand your device correctly.

Hi, and thank you for your input  .

I have looked at different "snapshots" of the positions of the motor, and used vectors to calcutalte the torque required to alter the magnetic field in the stator.

The stator magnets is fixed to a crankshaft with two joints 180 degrees apart. This joints is aligned vertical if the rotor north pole is pointing to the right. The stator magnets with the north pole pointing towards center, is linked to the lowest joints, and the other magnets with the north pole pointing outwards is linked to the upper joint.

I have concidered that there is a similar magnet configuration linked to the stator magnets which is counterforceing the force required to pull the magnets apart in the stator. So there should not take energy to alter them if we had a wooden or plastic rotor we wanted to rotate by hand. So the rotor does not have to "think" about that.

I have calculated that the stator magnets at 45, 135, 225 and 315 degrees does cancel out the force on the crankshaft sideways. The magnets on the very right and left are together providing a counterforce.
The model is very big. In a new model I've made, the joints in the crankshaft is 1 meter apart which is 0,5 meters from center. The rotor is 7.6 meters in diameter. The torque of the rotor is 138 256 Nm, and each stator magnet provides an average of 96876 Nm counter torque together on the crankshaft. That is about 30% less than the torque from the rotor.

96876  / 137 256 = 0.71 = sin45^o - coincidence?

It seams that the timing and the ofset of the rotor will provides a sum of torque that will work in one direction.

I must take some more time to calculate more angles to have more samples in one revolution. My computer is so slow, so it takes a lot of time to simulate the motor with a reliable calculations.

Here is the model in Femm I'm playing with right now. (see the atached zip-file)

Br.

Vidar

[Low-Q]

I have done some modifications with my motor. The rotordiameter are the same, but now I have split it in two parts, so left half has north pointing down, and the other halve is pointing up.
See snapshot from FEMM with some explanations on where the joints are and how the links between the magnets and the joints are configured. Attached are also this motor as a FEMM simulation. For those who has time, please look into this motor. After I split the rotor like that. The force to alter the stator magnet polarization suddenly dropped to zero. Because all the north-inwards stator magnets are in sum canceling out forces TOWARDS the rotors center. The same deal with all the north-outwards stator magnets.

It seams that the sum of all forces affecting the system is only going in parallell with the tangens of the rotor surface - hence torque.

I have tried to simulate the rotor in any random angels with the stator magnets locked, and it will allways generate torque except when the poles of the rotor is pointing directly left and right.

Well. As my computer can see it, there is now no forces at all that is preventing the rotor to turn around.

EDIT: Remember that the alignment of the stator magnets are following the rotor all the time because of the crankshaft with the two joints on it is linked to the stator magnets.
There are 32 samples in this motor as there is 11.25 degrees between each stator magnet. It should be good enough for you to calculate if there is significant usable torque left in the rotor.

Any comments?