Dissociation of the Water Molecule

[Farrah Day]

I've seen quite a few Meyer videos, but not one were he  measures the cell's  temperature.  Do you have a link?

There are no Meyer videos or even data that I know of that shows temperature of his cells. Mind you, this also goes for gas output, power input and most other measurements that would be of scientific interest. 

I would think that only a very small amount of water would dissociate to (OH)- and (H3O)+. Somewhere on the order of a few millionths of a mole per mole of water.You would have to have something in the water to grab that (OH)- or (H3O)+ as its being made.Thermal energy(heat) would be enough to make it happen.Just thinking out loud here.Triffid

Hi Triffid, you mean dissociates into OH- and H+, things don't tend to dissociate into something larger 

When you say that you think that only a small amount of water dissociates, what process are you referring to?

[d3adp00l]

How about starting with the basic chemical math of electrolysis.


What exactly does faraday"s calcs show, and what does it prove? And does its theory coinside with current understanding and theory of electrolysis.

Given the basic chemical model, how much hho would be made for what cost?

The basic mechanics of electrolysis is not well understood by most, I would imagine that to understand how to imporve it, you first need to understand what is happening and how to make it happen better, or differently in some way.

Just some thoughts.

[triffid]

Hey FarrahDay,I was referring to your post on page one of this thread addressed to "Alan".You were talking about pairs of water molecules and I have seen (H3O)+ as a  secondary product in chemical reactions even if for a second or shorter.Now one molecule of water dissociates to (H)+ and (OH)-.But I was considering two water molecules bouncing into each other to form products(H3O)+ and (OH)-.I just saying how small an amount of these two products are really made.You also gave no indication of the time period involved.If I pour a liter of water into a glass and leave it alone and open to the air.It will evaporate within 2-3 weeks.I assumed you were taiking about one hour periods.Triffid

[triffid]

Sorry, I said secondary product but meant " intermediate product".Which means its  formed along the way as the chemical reaction occurs but is never found as a finished product when the reaction is over.Triffid

[Farrah Day]

How about starting with the basic chemical math of electrolysis.


What exactly does faraday"s calcs show, and what does it prove? And does its theory coinside with current understanding and theory of electrolysis.

Given the basic chemical model, how much hho would be made for what cost?

The basic mechanics of electrolysis is not well understood by most, I would imagine that to understand how to imporve it, you first need to understand what is happening and how to make it happen better, or differently in some way.

Just some thoughts.

Yes, I do tend to like to start at the beginning.

There is nothing wrong with Faraday's Laws of Electrolysis, and there never will be. Faraday's Law simply takes into account every electron - every ion charge exchange - so it cannot be wrong. However, there is no stipulation that electrons have to be provided solely by the power supply - which tends to be where we measure current flow from.

Everyone knows of the simple chemical equation for electrolysis of water (or hydrolysis), but this does not take into account the action of an electrolyte in the process.

The basic mechanics of electrolysis is not well understood by most, I would imagine that to understand how to imporve it, you first need to understand what is happening and how to make it happen better, or differently in some way.

This I totally agree with this. Most people know how to achieve the required reaction in either hydrolysis or electroplating, etc, but not many people fully understand the mechanics of it all. Electrolysis of water might ultimately be just the dissociation of the water molecule via the passage of an electric current in order to produce hydrogen and oxygen, but this statement is extremely over-simplified to say the least and gives no insight into all the processes involved. 

Scientists are still puzzling over water, so it's not surprising that there are still unknowns even to something seemingly so elementry as hydrolysis.  I don't think anyone fully understands what effect passing a electric current through water has on water molecule cluster sizes or how these effect the mechanisim by which the H+ ion travels from water molecule to water molecule and cluster to cluster.

I believe many questions will be answered once the science behind the Kanzius discovery becomes known and detailed to the general scientific community.

Even then I think that Faraday's Laws will apply if the reactions involve charge exchanges - which surely they must - but how can you relate it to a power source that is providing no electrons?

Every electrolyser built will abide by Faraday's Laws, it's just that some will be very efficient, while others will not.  As well as all the variables involved in cell design, even adding electrolyte alters the electrolysis initiation voltage, so most people will never be running an electrolyser at maximum efficiency.

For any given electrolyser to be running at maximum efficiency, you would have to have the individual cells at exactly the minimum voltage in order to initiate electrolysis, cell electrode spacing would need to be optimum as would the plate area.

All that said, I think that there may well be a less power hungry way in which to increase the ionisation of water, which of course is the first step in the process.