Basic, beginner's information on the Testatika, with interpretive explanation

[sm0ky2]

Thank you Conrad

The triboelectric series (actually a series of series, depending upon the usage) give an easily understood representation of induction, since that each substance contains a natural charge (+ or -), when compared to another substance.
The mechanics that govern this can get very complex when looking at individual charge units.
there is not a standard equation that can relate force, friction, surface area, pressure, etc. to a particular value of charges.
We know there will be "some charge", but how much is seemingly random, at least within terms of defining a discrete value.

I could argue that all "friction" based static induction could also be achieved without physical contact.
albeit very very close, they do not have to actually touch in most cases.
Take any two materials from a series, and place them close together in the wind. each will gather an opposite charge.
the wind is acting as the charge carrier.
The same happens when you move them close to each other, the simple silk and polypropylene experiment can be done without frictional contact, by simply moving the plastic very near the silk.


Induction can occur through influence, using the triboelectric series.
It does not have to be a friction machine. Though the particular series used is often a different list, there are many similarities.
items at far ends of the series induce charges more easily than materials that are near the neutral line.

To better understand the induction process, and to maintain greater stability of the charge values, historical machines began
using like conductors to hold the charges. For instance, Aluminum has a great potential to hold a charge. + or -
When we move a charged piece of aluminum near another piece, it induces a charge in the second piece, which reinforces, or strengthens the charge in the first.
Continued motion in this manner, can saturate the conductor (maximum capacitance), or reach the breakdown impedance of
the shortest distance in the circuit between + and - charges (arcing).

What is interesting to note, is that the most powerful of W.R. Pidgeon's machines used a combination of both concepts.
Generally, like conductors were used to hold and induce the charges, in a similar manner to other influence machines of this type.
In addition to that, triboelectrically chosen materials were used to start, or reinforce these charges.
Most common was a hard rubber that is vulcanized with sulfur. It was originally the Goodyear Tire recipe.

This allowed pidgeon machines to be self-starting, whereas many whimshurst or other devices needed to be 'primed', or given an initial charge to begin the process.

the rubber was placed near where the "neutralizer" connections are made in other influence machines. between the + and - collection points. Conductors pass the material during the time when the charge is being induced, from the opposite conductor.
And chosen to be in the opposite polarity of the induction, so as to strengthen the effects.
the sulfur-doped rubber material was (-), and the conductor passed near this on its' way to the + collection point.
This aids the induction process at the same time a charge is being induced in the conductor from the oppositely charged conductor.

Making the charge points stationary, gives the machine a distinct advantage over Whimshurst and the like.
Since there is no need for a synchronization of multiple rotating disks. Any number of disk or disks could be moving at any speed or in either direction, and the induction effect remains unchanged.
Also, using multiple disks does not diminish the charge on the charged conductor. It in fact, strengthens it.
This is why pidgeon includes multi-disk versions of his machines in the patents.

What is often not shown in his patents, but is evident in variations of the devices he built, a (+) material can be used opposite
the location where the rubber is placed. Often this is replaced in drawings by a connecting (jumper) wire. In a similar manner to the function of the "neutralizer" rods or wires in other devices.

In short, influence machines that uses like conductors (such as aluminum plates), can be reinforced, or strengthened, by inclusion of the inductive effects found in the triboelectric series.
preliminary experiments along these lines has been shown to increase the output of a Whimshurst machine by placing materials at the neutralizer rods. When you only use one material (+ or -), short out the other end of the two rods to each other.
like if you have a piece of rubber at the bottom, jump a wire across the "tops" of the two rods. This balances out the charge point at the top of the disk, giving a neutral, or centerpoint between the two charges being induced at the bottom of the disk.

So, why Pidgeon vs Whimshurst? both machines seem to do the same thing right?
not exactly..

In a Whimshurst machine, the charges are constantly changing, (0) to (+) to (0) to (-) back to (0) again.
a good portion of the rotation is doing nothing but balancing out the separated charges, so that it can induce them again.

the stationary charge points in many of Pidgeons machines allow for continuous induction of charge potentials, which provides for a steadier and more abundant supply of charge at the collectors.
The charge is still "flipped" at the same points, as evident upon close examination of the charges during each part of the cycle.
However, the portion of rotation where they remain "neutral" or close to 0 (center point of potential) is greatly reduced.
More of the spinning motion is being used to induce (or separate) the charges.

[citfta]

Sm0ky2,

Thank you for all the time it must have taken you to type up these very long and informative posts.   There is a tremendous amount of good information in them.  I am going to have to read all of them several times to absorb all you have written.

Carroll

[conradelektro]

The triboelectric series (actually a series of series, depending upon the usage) give an easily understood representation of induction, since that each substance contains a natural charge (+ or -), when compared to another substance.

I could argue that all "friction" based static induction could also be achieved without physical contact.

The same happens when you move them close to each other, the simple silk and polypropylene experiment can be done without frictional contact, by simply moving the plastic very near the silk.

Induction can occur through influence, using the triboelectric series.

It does not have to be a friction machine. Though the particular series used is often a different list, there are many similarities.
items at far ends of the series induce charges more easily than materials that are near the neutral line.

For instance, Aluminum has a great potential to hold a charge. + or -
When we move a charged piece of aluminum near another piece, it induces a charge in the second piece, which reinforces, or strengthens the charge in the first.

Thank you for the explanations. I will look for these triboelectric series, because I am always searching for materials which could be used as the cake in an electrophorus. But it seems that the "old cakes" made from sulphur, bee wax and tree resin diluted with turpentine are best (various recipes can be found in books from the 19th century). But such "old cakes" break easily.

Modern plastic materials are easier to get and to handle. But I have the problem, that I do not know the exact chemical composition of the plastic materials, so, it is hard to get the same material again (because the products in the hardware stores change). I got "good" plexiglass and "bad" plexiglass (should be Polymethylmethacrylat also called acrylic glass), depending on the manufacturer. Good or bad refers to the ability to hold charge. Sometimes it helps to sand the material to get rid of a coating (which is often a different material).

Since you mention aluminium, I observed that aluminium as a top plate in my electrophori diminishes the charge in the cake rapidly. (I get the cake charged by rubbing it with wool or an other suitable cloth.) Steel as a top plate seems to be beneficial (in the sense that the charge of the cake stays for a long time, days even a week).

At the moment I am building a crank mechanisms, which allows to move the top plate of an electrophorus up and down in a more uniform and repeatable way (first by hand and then with an electric motor). The necessary top plate movement is only 5 mm to 10 mm (depending on the load), but in order to make comparisons the movement should be uniform and repeatable. Uniform movement (stable up-down frequency and speed) is also good for scope measurements, again this helps to make comparable measurements.

For all interested in electrostatic machines I can recommend this web site: http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html (I do not know the author, but I learned a lot from this site by studying the various electrostatic machines and from the patents and papers cited there.)

According to my humble opinion, one should go back to the electrophorus and from this base (first electrostatic machine in history) one should develop new electrostatic machines with modern high voltage components (HV diodes, HV capacitors and HV transistors). As I saw from my tests, everything can be kept below a few thousand Volts, even below 1000 Volt by "consuming" the charge by the load fast enough (which is easy with gas discharge lamps as a load). But I am thinking about using a HV transistor or two to build a buck converter type circuit to convert the charge from e.g. 1000 Volt down to e.g. 5 Volt. So, the electrostatic machine produces narrow spikes which are "consumed" at 1000 Volt (are truncated at 1000 Volt by being shortened into a capacitor) and are converted into wider 5 Volt spikes.

I think that I can get away with a IRF840 (500 V) or BUL7216 (700 V) or STP03D200 (1200 V)
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/389/CD00174493-251211.pdf which base is switched via a small HV capacitor, which only transfers a small charge into the base. If the HV capacitor at the base of the transistor has about the same capacitance as the base of the transistor the Voltage in the base of the transistor can not rise much. This capacitance is in the order of a few pF. It is easy to build a HV capacitor with a few pF by placing a plastic sheet between two metal plates which can even be a variable capacitance by only partially overlapping the metal plates.

In short: The spark gap should be replaced by a transistor which switches when a certain Voltage is reached in the inductor of the electrostatic machine. The brushes should be replaced by HV diodes which only let the charge through in one direction (reset) and block the opposite charge (let it build up).

I also think that an electrostatic machine built in the right way is an AC type machine which delivers alternatively several positive spikes and then several negative spikes. Several spikes appear if the spikes are truncated at a certain Voltage because the "charge separation mechanism" builds up the Voltage several times till the inductors reach a certain distance at which the "charge separation mechanism" brakes down (due to practical limitations, either the inductors get to far apart or can not be closer than touching). This means that one gets a "positive channel" and a "negative channel" out of a true electrostatic machine. And it is difficult to combine these two channels because the output would cancel itself. This should be, because on average one has about the same number of positive and negative ions in the ambient air. If the supply of ions from the air is unbalanced the two channels will have a different "strength".

An old question is the grounding of an electrostatic machine. At first sight it works without a ground connection. But soon one observes erratic behaviour like charge reversal or sudden failure of charged up parts (sudden de-charging of parts which should hold charge). Proper grounding clarifies or cleans the electrostatic machine. Stray charges disappear and a symmetry between the positive and the negative channel is established. One can say that proper grounding allows to suck charge from ground or to push charge into ground in case imbalances or stray charges start to build up. Very often grounding is achieved implicitly because the stand (the structure) of the machine is grounded inadvertently. The ground connection can have several mega Ohm and still works. Grounding has to be good in case the electrostatic machine is operated at rather low Voltages (if the built up charge is "consumed" pretty soon at e.g. 500 Volt).

Greetings, Conrad

[TinselKoala]

Smoky, most of what you've written about electrostatic machines is spot-on. Most, not all.  Now you have to ask yourself, with all that knowledge, why haven't your Testatika attempts worked? Why have no other Testatika "replications" based on electrostatics worked? Could it be because-- as I said earlier-- the Testatika is _not_ an electrostatic machine? You should be able to examine existing photos and drawings of the actual Testatikas and see for yourself why this is the case. Clearances, materials, construction, component placement, etc. all mitigate against actual voltages capable of producing "influence" or electrostatic induction.

For your amusement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpemKuf6X_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY

[conradelektro]

Could it be because-- as I said earlier-- the Testatika is _not_ an electrostatic machine? You should be able to examine existing photos and drawings of the actual Testatikas and see for yourself why this is the case. Clearances, materials, construction, component placement, etc. all mitigate against actual voltages capable of producing "influence" or electrostatic induction.

At the end of 1990ies I followed the Mathernitha story closely. Swiss authorities were pressing down on the Mathernitha because of questionable developments like taking money from old rich people who were lonely and in need of medical care and not providing appropriate care and also some children were held in bad circumstances (at least proper schooling was denied).

This Baumann Guru (their head honcho and alleged inventor) did all the things one should not do if wanting to convince the public that something works. All obvious measuring and examination procedures were denied.

The money making scheme of the Mathernitha was and still is not selling an OU-machine, it is taking money from people who are in need of medical help (mentally and physically) and who have some money. So, they do not bother with poor people. The OU-machine was a hobby of Baumann, some Guru thing amongst many other strange behaviours of Baumann.

Greetings, Conrad