Circular Ramp Design (CRD)

[Lode]

I don't know if this would work, and I am too involved with something else to try it out, but anyone who likes to play with magnets, ramps, and steel balls, be my guest.

Suppose we have a single row of magnets, and below it a ramp which is somewhat inclined upwards. Would a steel ball then be pulled up the ramp toward the magnets?

If this would be so, could we then end the ramp -or make it incline steeply downwards- at a point were the top of the ramp is still far enough away from the magnets so that the weight of the ball is still too great for the magnets above it to make it "stick" to them, so that -no longer being supported by the ramp at that point- the ball drops down to the base level from where it started? So that it can start its next climb on the prolongation of the series of inclined ramps with magnets above them?

Here is a lateral view of the design, in which the magnets are: - - - - - - - -

And the movement of the ball -from base left to top right- is: o o o

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
             
                        o                        o                        o
            o                        o                        o
o                        o                        o


The ramp inclination upward probably has to be less steep for a working model.
If this would work, then a host of other designs could be developed. Like a closed circle with a vertical axle in the middle, and a pulley attached to that, with spokes attached to the turning balls or wheels at their ends etc.

Just an idea...   

PS:
In case this wouldn't work -and it might not- I hereby offer my apologies beforehand for having wasted some of your time.

[mr_bojangles]

magnets exert a single directional force, so it would pull the ball straight up

if it were strong enough to make it move the distance of the ramp, it would just pick up the ball

especially at the top of the ramp where it would be attracted the most by the magnets


something besides the ball would have to move maybe

look up SMOT ramps

[Lode]

@mr_bojangles
Thank you for your comment and suggestion.

With SMOT the ball -after dropping to base level- is still closer to the last magnets above it between which it just fell at the highest and narrowest part of the v-ramp, than it is to the next magnets at the beginning of the next v-ramp. This is then the "dead" point, which it can only pass by dropping to a slightly lower level than that at which it started -which I have called base level- where it is then distant enough from those magnets it dropped between at the narrowest part of the v-ramp, to be attracted more strongly by the next set of magnets at the beginning of the next ramp. Therefore no continuous movement can be made, because the ball would be spiraling down, losing a bit of altitude after each ramp.
At least that is how I understand it from looking at the video's.

It is true as you say that once the ball is at a certain proximity to the magnets above it in the model I described, they will simply lift the ball off the track and make it adhere to them.
But I wonder if there is not a certain margin where the ball is under the attractive influence of the magnets but not strongly enough to be lifted up from the ramp yet. A margin where the distance between the ball and the magnets is still too great for the magnets to be able to do that, but not too great not to have an attractive influence on the ball.

If such a margin exists, then the ramp could be placed within this margin, so that the ball -whose weight is partially supported by the ramp- would still be be attracted enough by the magnets above it that it would be rolling toward them on the ramp.
The inclination of the ramp could be small to stay within the margin. (In the illustration below the steepness is exaggerated.) And care should be taken of course that the ball drops down within the margin, before it comes so close to the magnets that they would lift it up from the ramp.

Another important issue is that the ball -once it has dropped down to the base level- should be closer to the first magnet of the next row than to the last one of the previous row. Otherwise there will be a "dead" spot.
This can be accomplished as shown in the next illustration.
The borders of the margin are: ...........................

  - - - - - - - - - - - - - -         - - - - -
......................................................
                                o
                o                                             etc. -->
o                                         o
.......................................................   

As can be seen here, after the ball has dropped to base level, it is closer to the first magnet of the second row of magnets than to the last one of the previous row.

There should also be a small dip drawn in the superior row and a slightly larger upward indentation in the bottom one in the rows of dots illustrating the parameter borders of the margin, since in the middle of those spots that coincide with the gaps between the rows of magnets less magnetic attraction would exist. But to show that would needlessly complicate the illustration, so I leave it as is.

(I was just editing gaps into the row of magnets in the illustration in my first post, and adding distance between the top ball position and the base position, when the back-up maintenance procedure of the site had started, so the change was not posted. But this one will do.)

I know there are people here who know a lot more about magnets than I do, so they would know if this "margin" idea is correct and could be utilized as proposed.

PS: Maybe the same idea of having the ball run off a steep inclination after it drops in SMOT -instead of it falling strait down- so it would get farther away from the narrowest point of the v-ramp and get close enough to the next set of magnets to be more attracted by them than by the previous ones, could also work. Yet I can also imagine that this has already been tried without success. But I don't know if it has.

And has anyone tried to see what happens when the track with triangular magnet formations on each side is set down on its side so that one formation is above the other -vertically- instead of next to each other horizontally?
That way a closed ring could be formed with the track placed on its side. (Like a big round cookie cutter.) 

[Lode]

Well, I held out for 6 weeks, but finally ordered some strong 3 cm x 1 cm x 0.5 cm block magnets and some small steel balls a few days ago, which I received yesterday.

It turns out that the idea was correct that the ball would run up a slight slope if magnets are held above it. So there is a margin area were the ball is attracted enough by the magnet to run up the slope, but not yet strongly enough to be lifted off the slope and stick to the magnet.

But it will stop and stay on the slope right under the center of the first magnet. It will not be pulled further up the slope by the second magnet, even if they are set in a row touching each other.

By lifting the magnet which is right above the ball slightly up, the ball will roll down the slope again. And by lowering the magnet at that point were it "hangs" on the slope right under the center of the magnet above it, of course the ball will jump up and stick to the magnet.

I had mistakenly assumed that the ball would be attracted evenly to the whole surface of the magnet. This not being so, I don't see how the idea I described could work.

Ah well, it was fun fantasizing about it. 

[onthecuttingedge2005]

I still don't know why anyone has tried using a hula hoop as a track, the hula hoop would have all the proper banking of the steel ball and everything, you can also get transparent hula hoops from like Toy's R Us.

Jerry