New invention of motion less generation of electric power

[aaron5120]

Maybe the most simple way to prove energy gain is to use two traditional energy meters as used in Ali's first video ( the one with the turning wheel moved by eddy currents)
One measuring the input power consumption, the other measuring the power consumed at the output (between output of the genie and the light bulbs)

At the end I, as a consumer, would be interested in my energy bill.
For now my energy bill is depending on such traditional power meter.

This basically is already shown in Ali's first video.
The only thing missing is a power factor meter at the input. This would complete the setup.

I see WinsonAli is a honest person, and his actitude is humble when getting confronted with skepticism. He will make it eventually to finish his endeaver. I look forward to being able to purchase one of his Genies when they are on the market. Me too, in my country, we are dependent on the disc meter to pay our untility bill! If there is anything that can help me and my clients to save on the electricity bill then, that Genie is a good genie.
Right on, Ali. Go ahead. We are with you.

[robbie47]

convert AC into DC
then measure there the power
convert into AC again
feed it to genie
ok thats a good way of checking

But that would require a DC to AC converter.
If I remember well you indicated that your genie can not cope with such device because you need a real neutral connection point. Right?

well one thing is for sure, soon i will send circuit diagram to some of the members of this forum .... who i found to be very honest and looking for humanity...like teslaalset, Fatbird, robbie...... this may help them in some of there projects

Looking forward for the diagrams, much appreciated in advance!

[jan.kolar]

i am waiting for the links of article or paper discussing methods that can effect power meters (slowing down)

Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter#Tampering_and_security

Quoting some essential lines from this source:
"Rectified DC loads cause mechanical (but not electronic) meters to under-register. DC current does not cause the coils to make eddy currents in the disk, so this causes reduced rotation and a lower bill.

Some combinations of capacitive and inductive load can interact with the coils and mass of a rotor and cause reduced or reverse motion."

Compare this with what EMDevices said somewhere at the beginning of this thread. And there are also ways how to fool digital wattmeters. Every digital wattmeter has its bandwith. Lets say its 1MHz. Then sample frequency must be minimum of 2 MHz (Nyquist theorem). The consumed power is calculated in this way: (see attachment - N must be sufficiently large for nullifying effect of coils & capacitors in circuit.). So if spectrum of input signal contains components with frequency >1 MHz, the digital wattmeter data will be distorted. We cant judge if this is the case with Genie because we dont have circuit diagram, also osciloscope shots would be helpful. Analyzing informations from last video it seems that output voltage and current readings are RMS and PF close to 1 (because U*I = 245 * 0.78 = 191.1W which is very close to wattmeter reading around 185W) because of pure resistive load. High current on input (5.07A) is probably caused by reactive components in circuit (i.e. capacitors).
My view is that we deal with some sort of measurement error. Compare subsequent lowering of OU factor when using precisely measurement devices (154/45 = 3.42; 176/96 = 1.83 and now only 185/140 = 1.32).

[winsonali]

the information on wiki pages are very value able and bit generic in nature

70% of the home appliances  use SMPS where we have first a coil and capacitor to address PFC issues then we have a full wave DC rectifier which further switched on frequencies like 25KHZ to 40 KHZ and then down steped to required DC level

every thing is here capacitor , coils , DC  load , but they do not cause to slow the disc meter down , or they do not tricked the digital meter...... please don't say this that designer try to prevent power meter slowing effect.

try this at home  use IN4007 diodes make a bridge and connect to a  100 watt bulb you will see the meter will run more faster then when it was running directly (may be some extra energy consumed in DC rectification) but for sure the meter will not run slow in any condition

if you want to use high frequency in any device you have to convert it to DC first now i leave everything to your imagination ..........

Robbie:  you are right in my device we need to provide both negative and positive line in one phase so we need to design a circuit that can convert DC into such AC when ever i will get some time i will do that.

Next target is obviously self running unit
i have to go now for some days out coz i have things to do may not be available on forum but will remain in touch on emails
thanks and regards



   

[robbie47]

Jan,
I share you thoughts on a possible measurement flaw.
I looked again to the first demo video. What is shown is the below circuit if I am not mistaken.
The light bulb right behind the dimmer is showing dimmed light, but this indicates only that low voltage is applied. The actual amount of consumed current can not be concluded this way.

So, I guess what we really want to know is the real RMS input current.
Because only in the chopped voltage time slots current is consumed, the current waveform is also chopped. To measure this with a true RMS meter is tricky because these have been designed to cope with full sinus periods presumably.

Best way to know the current consumption is to put a 1 Ohm power resistor in series with the input power line and then measure the voltage using an oscilloscope. (carefull with the neutral!)
From the shape and the amplitude of the measured current the true RMS current value can be calculated.
To confirm a Power Factor of 1.0 in parallel the input voltage shape (and phase) should be measured with the same oscilloscope, e.g. channel B, while measuring the power of the 1 Ohm resistor. Be very carefull with the way you connect the probes!!