Joule Thief 101

[TinselKoala]

@ minnie-or anyone else that cares to have a stab at it.

OK,lets see how your laws of induction skills go.

Below is a schematic and scope shot to go with the schematic.

L1 is wound on the former first-this is our primary coil.
L2 is wound over the top of L1.
The CVR is showing the current flowing through L1(the blue trace on the scope shot),and so this should be also indicating the rise of the magnetic field around L1. The current and voltage through and across L1 are extremely close to being in phase at these low frequencies
The yellow trace is showing the open voltage across L2.

Should L2s voltage trace be in phase with L1s current trace,of should it be 90* out of phase as shown in the scope shot?.

Please note the very low frequency being used,and the reason for that will become clearer later on.


Brad

Brad, your scope shot shows the expected 90 degree phase difference as predicted by Faraday's Law: The induced (negative) EMF in the second coil is proportional to the _time rate of change_ of the inducing magnetic field from the first coil.

The first coil's magnetic field follows, to first order, the current shown on the scope trace. At the peaks of this current, the time rate of change is zero (instantaneous slope is horizontal) -- and so the induced EMF as shown in the second coil's trace is zero (the induced current trace crosses the zero volt baseline at the same time the inducing current peaks.) When the inducing current (magnetic field) is changing at its maximum rate (the place where the instantaneous slope is steepest or most vertical: the zero crossing) the induced current is at its maximum (the peaks).

As you raise the frequency of your test, stray inductances (wire connections) become increasingly important and the observed phase difference on the scope will change.

[EMJunkie]

You're lying like the troll you are, Chris Sykes. And everyone here knows it.

STOP MISREPRESENTING MY WORK, stop lying, LEAVE ME OUT OF YOUR DEMENTED FANTASIES AND RIDICULOUS CLAIMS.



As far as the friend-funded Rigol DS1054z oscilloscope goes, and as anyone following my work knows, the First unit I received _definitely_ had a hardware fault from the factory and was replaced within days of my notifying Rigol and TEquipment. The Second unit I received worked fine, and I identified several SOFTWARE BUGS that were acknowledged by Rigol during the six months or so that I used it daily in my work. That scope had an early version of the Boot Loader software on it that caused the bugs. RIGOL THEMSELVES asked me if I wanted to trade out that scope for one with the _current_ Boot Loader, and I agreed to do so. They sent me the replacement completely free of charge, and sent it to me _before_ I sent the obsolete unit back, so I could test them side-by-side for several days, which I did, and which tests I reported to Rigol and on another forum where I sometimes post. So I am now using DAILY in my work the "Third" actual scope from Rigol. I've found a few bugs in the software of this scope as well, and have reported them to the appropriate places. The "average" user would never encounter most of these bugs in their daily basic scope use. For sure, EMJunkie would never see them, or even be able to tell when they hit.

It is a baldfaced and transparent lie that I "busted and blamed on the OEM" anything to do with my DS1054z. I have identified software faults in this complex and low-cost instrument, that are indeed due to oversights and poor programming on the part of the OEM. They are definitely NOT due to my "busting" anything, and my bug identification and reports are helping Rigol to improve their quality and service. The Rigol DS1054z remains the best oscilloscope value for the money (although the new Siglent scopes come close), and the few remaining bugs are not likely to be encountered by any but the most advanced scope users and can easily be worked around if they do crop up. Hopefully they will be fixed in the next firmware update and will no longer cause anyone any difficulty.

As always, I am happy to help (almost) anyone with understanding their instrumentation, with recommendations, and interpretation of what they see. The lying fool EMJunkie, however, can go spit.

But it is OK for you to Miss-Represent EVERYONE Else's work - Are you Special are you TK???

Old mate, you are just funny!

Look, I was winding you up a little bit, for reasons I won't go into here.

Yes, you have helped many with the understanding of some things, but at the same time, you have also held many back with your Biased advice that have no real fact or value in Science.
Common, lets put the pieces together!

The Magnetic Field's, when the Rotor in on Approach to Stator and the Stator Coils are carrying a Current, Do What: ____ _____ ____ _____, _____ ___!

Why dont you, use your expertese to actually get the ball rolling? Is it that Belief's are getting in the way?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[TinselKoala]

Sounds like youre implying that Magnets and Atoms are Perpetual Motion Machines!!!

I hope not! You know what this means!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Sounds like you, as usual, have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me know when you observe a proton decaying. Until then.... you can STFU.

[EMJunkie]

Brad, your scope shot shows the expected 90 degree phase difference as predicted by Faraday's Law: The induced (negative) EMF in the second coil is proportional to the _time rate of change_ of the inducing magnetic field from the first coil.

The first coil's magnetic field follows, to first order, the current shown on the scope trace. At the peaks of this current, the time rate of change is zero (instantaneous slope is horizontal) -- and so the induced EMF as shown in the second coil's trace is zero (the induced current trace crosses the zero volt baseline at the same time the inducing current peaks.) When the inducing current (magnetic field) is changing at its maximum rate (the place where the instantaneous slope is steepest or most vertical: the zero crossing) the induced current is at its maximum (the peaks).

As you raise the frequency of your test, stray inductances (wire connections) become increasingly important and the observed phase difference on the scope will change.

WRONG!!!


180 Degrees is the angle you will see!!! Faradays Law does not predict this, its actually Heinrich Lenz and Lenz's Law!!! Written as a (-) sign in the Equations of Faradays Law of Induction.

Which is Equal and Opposite.

See TK, if you had a handle on this, you could see and do so much more!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[tinman]

No actually, it shows how stupid and ignorant you are.  A magnet does not dissipate energy.  Yet you state that a magnet does dissipate energy even though all evidence is to the contrary and just a simple level of understanding is all that is needed to see what is taking place and to arrive at the proper conclusion.

So you are the very definition of stupidity in this case.

And to parrot you, you have no idea what it is you are dealing with - you don't know what the magnetic force is, and so you cannot make the statement that you just tried to make.

You don't know what the "magnetic force" is Brad, you don't know what it is.

Well im afraid that (once again) you and minnie are wrong-as usual.

Without even knowing what the magnetic field or force is,we know that a PM dose dissipate energy.
Your lack of understanding MH,is very obvious in this thread,and now your mate minnie is following your path.

I will give you 2 days to prove that a magnet dose not dissipate energy,and i will show you proof that it dose in under a minute.

You have no idea what so ever what the magnetic force is,but you sit there and gloat about how a magnet dose not dissipate energy. A simple 1 minute experiment can show a magnet dissipating energy,but your short sightedness just dose not allow you to grasp such a concept.

You have no vision at all MH--that much is clear.

Brad