Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[Khwartz]

Hi all,

Maybe all that you are discussing is what Howard Johnson demostrated by experimental tests in his book "The Secret World of Magnets". He states, and measured with a Hall probe, that the lines of force do not move from one pole to the other but they move from one pole to the center point, forming a double vortex.

Please see the attached picture from his book.

Regards

Hi Hanon, thanks for your input but how it would be possible the 2 sides, top and bottom, having exactly the same behaviour (flux going outside), would be 2 different poles? :/

[poynt99]

Luc indicated 4 block walls, my sketch indicates there are actually 8


The core makes no difference


The following photos show exactly what my sketch indicated


Ron

What you're seeing there is the result of the net flux passing through the Hall sensor. Null readings do not indicate the presence of a Bloch wall, they are simply indications that the Hall sensor is in a location where the flux passing through it from the front to back is equal to the flux passing through it back to front, for a net sum of 0.

Just to reiterate, Bloch walls can only be present in a ferromagnetic material that inherently contains magnetic domains. There are no such magnetic domains present in air or copper, or anything non-ferromagnetic for that matter.

[poynt99]

Magnets are strongest at their ends,
not the middle

Actually this is not correct.

On the surface where one measures it appears the magnet is weakest in the middle, but if you could insert a micro-probe inside the magnetic material in the middle, you would see that the field is actually stronger there than it is on the ends.

[MileHigh]

In the mean time this is not an engineers forum,
rather a hobbiest/hands on experimenter group where the transition between two opposite poles is
commonly referred to as the bloch wall... lets keep it simple and on track.

That would be a very foolish thing to do.  Why play with magnets for years and not even understand how magnetic fields work?  Hobbyists and experimenters work with exactly the same materials and circuits that engineers work with.

Please just work on trying to understand what Poynt is saying.  Your keyboard can take you to a thousand web sites if you need more information.  Without understanding what you are doing and what is happening, you are just keeping yourself in darkness and ignorance.  It's definitely not what you want to do.

Bloch walls, how coils work, how capacitors work, how electric circuits work, how to make proper measurements, and so on form the basic building blocks of understanding and working with electronics.   Even your phrase, "the transition between two opposite poles" doesn't really and truly make sense.  You would never hear anybody state that outside of the forums.  The challenge for you is to understand why there are problems with that statement.  It's all part of the learning process.

I read the past 20 to 30 posts and i_ron, you are simply wrong.  So either you really and truly try to learn, or if not then you will be stuck in a murky dark world of ignorance.

I am stating this with some force, because I see you push back with some force, and you are wrong.

[Khwartz]

LOL


It is pointless to encourage this ridicules line of endeavour any longer. Lets return to the TOPIC,
Luc's graphic. Luc raised a very valid point. I added to it. If anyone does the experiment with different
results, I would be pleased to correct my material. In the mean time this is not an engineers forum,
rather a hobbiest/hands on experimenter group where the transition between two opposite poles is
commonly referred to as the bloch wall... lets keep it simple and on track.


Ron

If you don't want to continue to discuss your way to interpret and use the probe when you get your read it is your choice and you're very free to not participate to the discussion.

Your made measurements and shared them and it very nice you did so but let others have other ways.

I am indeed interested in understanding what's going on cause this is the very way to save time and go somewhere with more insurance. Let's other express their own viewpoints and knowledge.

Good that there can be practical experimenters, engineers or not, and good there can be theoretical approaches too, scientists or not. Each approach may enrich each other if we try FIRST to understand in what way the other can be true.

Stop arguing or just provide better arguments, please.