Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[telecom]

Hi Microcontroller,
I see your point - basically it will take the same amt of energy to bring load down as up.
will keep browsing through his website looking for an answer.
Alex

I found out how he does it - its here:
http://ut27972.narod.ru/Book_2/71_Book_2_part_71.htm
Basically, he is using a variable displacement piston.(In  yellow color, consisting of parts 1 and 2)
During the down stroke, piston is kept at the minimal displacement (part 2 goes inside of part 1). This allows for extra liquid to get in.
After reaching  bottom the piston expands, and due to its increased displacement it rises up.
At the top position part 2 gets pushed in again.
The o/u is the excess liquid equal to the volume of the part 2 of the piston.

[Cisco]

"Basically, he is using a variable displacement piston.(In  yellow color, consisting of parts 1 and 2)
During the down stroke, piston is kept at the minimal displacement (part 2 goes inside of part 1). This allows for extra liquid to get in.
After reaching  bottom the piston expands, and due to its increased displacement it rises up.
At the top position part 2 gets pushed in again."[/size]

[/size]
Ever heard of ELSA? Your description of the Russian device apparently uses the same mechanism that was presented by John Herring with his ELSA--albeit in a much less sophisticated fashion--9 years ago. I believe he has died since then. [/size]
The mechanics of part 2 getting pushed in again at the top position is where he lost me.[/size]

[/size]
http://www.icestuff.com/energy/elsa/

[telecom]

"Basically, he is using a variable displacement piston.(In  yellow color, consisting of parts 1 and 2)
During the down stroke, piston is kept at the minimal displacement (part 2 goes inside of part 1). This allows for extra liquid to get in.
After reaching  bottom the piston expands, and due to its increased displacement it rises up.
At the top position part 2 gets pushed in again."[/size]

[/size]
Ever heard of ELSA? Your description of the Russian device apparently uses the same mechanism that was presented by John Herring with his ELSA--albeit in a much less sophisticated fashion--9 years ago. I believe he has died since then. [/size]
The mechanics of part 2 getting pushed in again at the top position is where he lost me.[/size]

[/size]
http://www.icestuff.com/energy/elsa/

Hi,
will gladly look at Elsa.
According to the website, during the rise, while smaller part of the piston (2) reaches the top, bigger part (1) keeps moving up,
this is what causing part 2 to collapse into part 1 of the piston.

[neptune]

@johnny874. You said "If he wanted to try something that might work, he might consider a weighted float"


Can you please explain why he could possibly want to try something the "might work" when he already has something that does work?

[johnny874]

@johnny874. You said "If he wanted to try something that might work, he might consider a weighted float"


Can you please explain why he could possibly want to try something the "might work" when he already has something that does work?

  Neptune,
I did mention specific principles in engineering which I think he has not considered. it is merely a consideration of the facts. Compressing hydraulic fluid will only allow for a conversion of it's potential. This is one problem with a closed loop system.
If he made the mistake of building before doing testing to verify potential did exist, okay, so he reacted a bit more than he should have. But in research, sometimes it's best to start over at the beginning and do the basic tests. I think he'll find any increase in the height of the static head results in less work. This is because compression of the hydraulic fluid reduces the volume that can be pumped in a certain amount of time.
With a submarine or weighted float, having one weight drop on another would close the space between them increasing the density of the structure. When the device plunges deeper in water, the top weight can be caught and held while the lower weight continues it's plunge. This would open the device decreasing it's density and increasing it's buoyancy. Basically playing it like a yo-yo. It would need some mechanics or what ever to control it's function but might be a simple idea that could be tested with pvc pipe, weights, plastic and some plastic glue and a trip to the beach or lake and see how it responds ?
But then, something like that would have come from different peoples idea's. Scientists have even tried floats on top of the water to harness wave energy, but they never thought of sinking it.
Still, would be something for you guys to talk about if you want, and who knows, Wayne might like the idea. And since I have some things to take care of before I get to pursue my favorite hobby, will take that break I need and if you guys like the idea, it's all yours.

                                                                               Jim

p.s. in this very basic concept, if one pvc tube goes over another, plastic can be used to seal it like an air shock so if the is a gap between tubes, it's okay. All it would be is a start if you guys think it's worth considering.

edited to add; with fluid systems, it is possible that increased pressure also increases adhesion and cohesion. With a collapseable weight, it is changing it's potential to a body of water or outside force.
basically, perpetual motion or overunity is considered impossible because a mass or an object can not change it's potential relative to iteslf or it's closed loop system.