Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.

[GreenHiker]

Seed3,
Your Zed drawing is interesting and a bit different to what I imagined. what is the dark blue, gray, light blue and what is the orange rectangle at bottom?

The labeled diagram for the simulations is on page 2 of his original pdf document.

[fletcher]

parsid, you must have missed my posted link to my public ZED folder with a PDF description of the ZED drawings used in my sim.  Here it is again.  This is where I will post my updates to the PDF and animations.  These are about to be updated, as the current ones are wrong in the details, but it will give you an idea of what it all means.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6vdnbk72ywyckns/zB501rT78P

Parisd .. I believe you are viewing a split screen representation i.e. half images of a ZED in the before & after phases of half a cycle, for comparison.

The orange rectangle at the bottom is a Piston that an up force is applied to - the center orange Riser is locked down initially so it can't move - the Piston pushes up the water volume beneath the Riser [N.B. the dark blue shells are the Pod walls & never move] - water volume [calculated on circular areas x heights for volumes] is forced to rise up the inner side of the Riser - this displaces the grey area of air [the air gap] - the air in turn pushes the water columns [as seen in the sim] down & up on the outside - so the air gap is just a low density fluid that for the purposes of a sim transmits water pressure.

As the outside water column rises the head pressure rises - this is proportional to the volume of water in the Piston chamber that is forced to bypass the locked down Riser - this raising of head [measured from the outside water column height to the top of the Piston face] creates the Buoyancy force the Riser experiences - this buoyancy force is real & is proportional to the 'virtual' volume displacement of the Riser + Riser 'legs/rings'.

Note that :

1. the Piston must do Work to raise the mass of Piston + Piston chamber water + NET Pod & Riser columns water - this means there is an increase in system PE achieved by Work Done.

2. as the head increase is proportional to the volume exchanges the Static Pressure [i.e. pgh where p = density] increases on the Piston face - so in essence as the head increases rapidly for a small volume input the Static Pressure increases also - since Pressure is Force x Area & Force = P / A we can see that a larger & larger force opposing the Piston is generating - this 'counter' force is also 'virtual' volume dependent.

P.S. the Piston 'feels' like it has to lift the virtual volume equivalent in real mass, even though the actual volume real mass is considerably less.

3. at some point the Riser is released [in the sweet spot] & net upthrust force [buoyancy less gravity force] causes the Riser to gain PE & also increase the PE of the Load mass - of course while moving they both have KE.

4. the displaced virtual volumes are now reduced [lowers the water PE somewhat] & the system is top of cycle & in equilibrium again, as before the Piston was forced to move upwards [the Piston in the sim is to represent water injected into the ZED proper] - the system returns to starting positions & Potentials when the load is allowed to move the Riser, Water & Piston back down to their original positions & volumes etc.


N.B. At this stage it looks like the opposite action of depressing an ordinary float into a tank of water - i.e. the force to depress the float is the same NET cycle force as raising the Piston & contents etc, IMO.

I'm sure see3d will correct any misconceptions I may have.

[see3d]

... this displaces the grey area of air [the air gap] - the air in turn pushes the water columns [as seen in the sim] down & up on the outside - so the air gap is just a low density fluid that for the purposes of a sim transmits water pressure...

...Note that :

1. the Piston must do Work to raise the mass of Piston + Piston chamber water + Pod & Riser columns water - this means there is an increase in system PE achieved by Work Done...

I'm sure see3d will correct any misconceptions I may have.

fletcher, thanks for providing parsid with that detailed description.  A couple of points for the above quotes:

The sim does model the compression in the air.  The grey color gets darker as the PSI increases.  It is not an absolute scale though -- I adjust a parameter to match the particular sim max pressure.  Also, if the air pressure becomes negative, the color takes on a red tint.

On point 1. above:

My sim model is based on counterbalancing the piston, water, and riser mass.  That only leaves the output load weight in the equation, so it is much easier to model.  This is not cheating though as a physical model can easily be set up this way.  It should actually perform better for a single ZED.

[fletcher]

fletcher, thanks for providing parsid with that detailed description.  A couple of points for the above quotes:

The sim does model the compression in the air.  The grey color gets darker as the PSI increases.  It is not an absolute scale though -- I adjust a parameter to match the particular sim max pressure.  Also, if the air pressure becomes negative, the color takes on a red tint.

On point 1. above:

My sim model is based on counterbalancing the piston, water, and riser mass.  That only leaves the output load weight in the equation, so it is much easier to model.  This is not cheating though as a physical model can easily be set up this way.  It should actually perform better for a single ZED.

Yes, duly noted about the compressible gas variable - Mr Wayne & Mr Sunset have said that incompressible fluids of lesser density work just as well - for the purposes of understanding a single layer ZED as you have represented it it would make very little difference [hardly any air PSI/volume change I think you said] to think of it as a low density non compressible fluid.

It begs the question which I have thought about before & I'm sure others have also - why not just have water replace the air gap ? - the answer seems, it appears to me, that the same density water in place of the air gap might well act as a syphon as water wants to flow to lower areas by cohesive bonds i.e. reduce its PE - therefore it might try to pull water volume into the Piston Water Chamber - for some reason they don't want this effect so use a lesser density fluid.

On your second point Dennis - yes, I well remember that was your objective - which goes back to my comment about leaving the Pod & Piston stationary & applying a force to sink the Riser + Load [the reverse ZED sim _{i.e. changing the reference frame}] - measure that Work Done against the Work Output i.e. when the Riser/float is released it springs upwards with load on board - if it jumps out of the water & then falls again to find floatation equilibriums then the height it jumped to above the settled equilibrium water height is PE gained & a demonstration of its OU potential / or not ?

EDIT: TK speculated a few pages back that perhaps capillary action had a part to play in the normal ZED & that was why Mr Wayne suggested that gaps & walls be a fine as practical but didn't work so well with larger gaps etc, IINM ?

It also might explain why the need for a optimal cycle sweet spot & limited working stroke distance to show OU, again IINM about that requirement.

[see3d]

...TK speculated a few pages back that perhaps capillary action had a part to play in the normal ZED & that was why Mr Wayne suggested that gaps & walls be a fine as practical but didn't work so well with larger gaps etc, IINM ?

It also might explain why the need for a optimal cycle sweet spot & limited working stroke distance to show OU, again IINM about that requirement.

Based on the preliminary sim results that I shared, the sweet spot being limited to a short stroke is caused by the destruction of virtual water with longer strokes (relative to the total height). 

I love that term "virtual" water.  To me, that is just the imaginary head added to the head via extra air pressure.  The PSI of the air gets added to the weight of the water times the height of the water head.  As such, a negative PSI causes the destruction of virtual water... LOL

The sweet spot is after we have created some virtual water, and before the rising stroke destroys more than we created.  It is a negative feedback loop.

That is why it is important to me to have a careful real world check on the sim to verify this mechanism.