PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

Sounds like a good first step - if it seems that you have some worthwhile results from this initial setup then its worth going on to run some higher precision tests on the main test rig

my comments:-

a) Faraday shielding is a must, to eliminate pickup of extraneous energy

b) total thermal capacity of the heatsink should be chosen preferably to give suitable resolution of the anticipated quantity to be measured - may need small range of heatsink 'bases' for different sized experiments

c) use a small block of the same heatsink material, in good thermal connection with base heatsink, and with a suitable horizontal 'through hole' to mount test o/p resistors (packed with thermal compound), and a suitable vertical 'through hole' to accept LEDs pointed at the base heatsink

d) presume main heatsink is thermally insulated below?


i've seen a report describing a low-tech measure of heat produced from a capacitor-charge experiment - i'll check to see what type of sensor they used (their overall approach was just to use a copper tube for the test resistor, pack with compound, and measure max temp rise for DUT compared to DC o/p thro' same resistor - i guess this could be simpler setup for an initial go/no-go check as to whether to do a full calr. test?)

[EDIT:  yes, they used copper-constantan thermocouples - one on the o/p resistor copper tube - and one on a reference copper disk near the DUT - and measured the difference between the sensor o/ps, all long wiring was laid out in a non-inductive pattern within the area of the thermal test, all of which was located on a suitably-sized styrofoam base]

hope this helps
np

[PS   if my device for test hasn't arrived yet, then i guess it's attracted some attention from homeland security!!]


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Very helpful -- thanks, NP.
I plan to discuss such ideas with Prof H tomorrow afternoon, so keep the cal'r - related questions and ideas coming, @all.
DUT hasn't arrived yet; so you may be right.  However, I'm keeping my hopes up, that it will arrive in the next day or two.  Small town here.

@Neptune -- clever to immerse in oil   but like NP says, may require a bit of clean-up afterwards.

@all -- I think we're interested in a test that can be done fairly quickly and at the same time reliably on the 5-10% accuracy scale, so that we can test and compare a number of "promising" circuits... and make quick variations, e.g. in the bifilar-wound coil, or the capacitor(s) and resistors.  The cap/time method can get this accuracy for Pinput in about ten minutes... or even less, depending on the power consumed.  I'm hoping the cal'r methods we come up with will give us ~5-10% measurements of Poutput in a half-hour, or less.

[ltseung888]

Some relevant questions and answers:

1.   The difference between a Joule Thief and the old FLEET prototypes appears to be addition of a secondary LCR circuit.  The new FLEET has multiple LCR circuits.  Is that correct?

Answer:  Yes.  With the old FLEET, we have many prototypes showing standing waveforms for the Output Power Curve.  That is already a sure sign that we have achieved some type of resonance condition.  We now add another (or more) secondary LCR circuit and hope that Multiple LCR circuits will also achieve resonance.  In addition, we hope for sympathetic vibrations.

2.   With the Michael Du prototype, the LED at the Joule Thief circuit will not light up but the many LEDs on the two secondary circuits lighted up.  What does that imply?

Answer: That may imply negligible Input Power because the LED at the Joule Thief circuit did not light up.  We also know that the power or energy required to maintain a standing wave is negligible (theoretically zero).  The two secondary circuits can light up many LEDs.  This implied possible overunity â€" Output Power greater than Input Power.  It may also imply that Electron Motion Energy is brought-in at the toroid â€" energy is not supplied from the battery.

Without the oscilloscopes displaying the various waveforms, we cannot say with certainty what is happening.  However, it hinted at the correct approach we took from the early days of research of FLEET â€" tune for resonance. 

3.   Is it possible to use a different pulsing source such as a Signal Generator?  We can vary the frequency easily.

Answer: Yes.  The very first FLEET used a signal generator.  If we want pulsed DC signal, we can either add a diode or a LED.

With resonance, change in environment such as immersing the electronic components in oil etc. is likely to change the resonance condition.  I have my doubts.  Is it possible to take oscilloscope measurements at the same time?  Can we observe the change in waveforms with components in the calorimeter?

Knowledge will be gained by hard work.  Amen.

[nul-points]

 

[...]
change in environment such as immersing the electronic components in oil etc. is likely to change the resonance condition
[...]
Is it possible to take oscilloscope measurements at the same time?
[...]

hard to say...

you might just be able to do it if you had a large enough tank of oil, and a snorkel

[JouleSeeker]

"A snorkel"!  LOL.  Thanks for the humor, NP.

Just a quick note as I leave soon to see my calorimetrist colleague...
RomeroUK jumped in over at OUR.com with a couple of posts worth noting (IMO):

@cheappower2012
Please leave Muller daughter alone, there is no connection at all with her in what happened, it is only my fault, I should have  kept my mouth shut.
I respect her for what she does and follow her father work. How many ladies we have in this field??? very few and that makes her special.
She has also encouraged all to try and replicate the original Muller Dynamo.

The device I built was not 100% Muller arrangement only even/uneven magnets and coils, even that was not as Bill Muller sugested, I should I had 8 magnets and 7 coils to keep it to the original.
I will not comment that device anymore, fake is fine if is not is fine too.
I moved away from that device, why don't you all  who believe that is only a simple dynamo move away too?
There are so many other devices that can be replicated, many of them much more easy and cheap to be built.

Best regards,
Romero

Thank you, Romero, for jumping in here and clarifying this --  "Please leave Muller daughter alone, there is no connection at all with her in what happened,"
I have communicated with Carmen Muller and found her to be intelligent and cooperative. 

I appreciate Romero's calm and insightful responses.

RomeroUK today:  @cheappower2012
this was nothing compared with other devices already discovered and presented recently.
The future energy is not going to come from any devices like this, this one had a lot of problems and had a lot of limitations.
If you consider that me, SM, Kapanadze and others are  betrayers of mankind what will you do? It is so easy to talk when you are not in my position.
If you have to chose between you and all others what will you chose?. In an ideal world 'maybe' will chose the others but this world is far from ideal, we are all struggling, including me.

Regards,
Romero

[JouleSeeker]

   I should report on my visit with my calorimetrist colleague at the University yesterday.
Prof. H and I visited for quite a while, and it was clear that he would much prefer that I build a straightforward calorimeter rather than coming up to repeatedly use his fancy cal'r.  So he provided a lot of information about how to do this, to get 5-10% measurements of the total heat output. 

@NP -- your device has yet to arrive; maybe you're right about the MIB? 
I will keep looking for it to come...I suspect it will, in time. 

   I will post details about the small calorimeter later -- I've got some important errands this morning to tend to.   
@all  Thanks for your patience; it looks like it will be a while before the "home cal'r" is built and used, since we have a long family trip planned starting next Monday (in two days).  But I'm looking forward to having this instrument for Poutput measurements, and it looks like it will work very well.  And Prof H will help in the future, that is clear.  Good meeting with him.