Romero's experiments and OU principles

[bolt]

The details of this Trapps device is completely unknown, at least to me, so any comparison doesn't make sense in my view.

The thrapps generator is a reactive induction generator where the poles are wired out of phase tuned with capcitors. Its a very close cousin of the muller motor.

You're a record holding optimist Bolt, you seem to be convinced all these devices work as advertised.

Not at all i only pick devices that i am sure that work. This year i have only selected RomeroUK's muller AND isamael's MEG.  I don't go round with blind faith i use years of experience and understanding to reveal the truth from scam devices. As such i have helped 2 more people this week produce zero or near zero lugging mullers. I think that justifies my presenece.

You probably follow www.peswiki.com as well.

Actually i very rarely look there only to see if there are additional links or info i have missed.


Notice how much optimistic stories were published the last 10 years and how many entered the market successful.
Zero up till now.

Products that work are not automatically entered into the public arena  for thousands of reasons. Just because you can not buy one from Walmarts does not mean they are fake or do not exist. Number one reason is inventors greed for making huge sums of money leads to dead locked contracts and zero progress.  Romero and Isamael have a new approach of open sourcing at least a large amount of the technology which its just starting to bring the technology to the people. Years of what may have only been fiction and theory is playing out into real OU devices and much i have written in the past can now be crossed referenced as factual.

I am not so convinced and I would rather keep any comparison out here and stay with both feet on the ground.
I am hopefull but not convinced due to a lack of facts and figures, that's where we differ.

That's fine with me people have their own pace of understanding. Some learn quicker than others.

[neptune]

@Bolt . It is obvious to me you are a man of knowledge and experience .You have spent time and money obtaining this . I have always said that understanding the technology is much easier than understanding the psychology behind it .
         OK so the bottom line is this . How is the alternative energy scene different now from what it was 10 years ago . At that time people were looking for , as a minimum , a device that could be built for less than say 200 dollars in a home workshop . It would have to run a load of say a minimum of 5 watts , and feed itself . It would need to be capable of replication by a person of average DIY skills .The tuning and adjustment would need to be fairly straight forward .Its overunity would be demonstrated by its self running . 10 years on , what has changed . Can you show me such a machine ? Have you ever built such a machine . It is not impossible that such machines exist , but the people who know , are for whatever reason , either unwilling or unable to show us .
    Free Energy is not a religion ,faith is not enough . I don`t want to spoil your optimism , but what do you say .

[Magluvin]

Yes, I can design a motor that will waste 12 watts unloaded Mechanically, with a hidden resistor, but a DC motor properly designed draws very little current and power at 2000 rpm when not loaded, not 12 watts.

Bolt,

You see, one of the motor coil with the longer ON time powers the rotor clockwise, and the other with the shorter ON time feeds power into the BEMF which distorts the magnetic fields of the rotor, and when the hall turns OFF, a snapping action or magnetic wave is launched at a fast velocity, that of the rotor plus something else, and I'm starting to believe that this device might be OU after all, a type of magnetic vortex power amplifier.

EM

Hey Em

Been reading what you and Peterae have been discussing.
I cannot say that the config on the drive coils is as you guys are figuring. Also I dont have a complete replica made yet.

I have had pulse motor do the rocking back and forth when the motor is in repel. 

It depends on how long on either side of a rotor magnet a drive coil is on. It is very possible that romeros timing config, how ever he tuned it, does just that, and one drive has that much overlap.

I had theories on the Whipmag when we were working on it, that the rotor mags, with like poles facing each other created a like pole bubble between the mags, and all the rotor mags formed a magnetic chain around the rotor. N bubble, S bubble, N bubble, etc. 

The idea of the theory is, when the gearwise stator were upon a rotor mag, it was in attraction with the rotor mag, both poles of both mags in attraction. This would break the chain, and did affect the other bubbles in the chain. ;]

And I theorized that this chain breaking could have been a way for the gear wise stators to communicate with the antigearwise stator for supposed timing purposes.

But there were no replications in sight since Als whip vids.

So I would say until you have a working device in front of you and analyzed it thoroughly, I would not press opinions that are not fact till others get exhausted from prescribed direction, as it may be misleading and complicate the thoughts people have already. ;] No harm intended.

Mags

[EMdevices]

.. I can tell you that when I powered on the device with low power like 6 volts I could not get the effect but starting with 9-12 volts will bring the effect in the system then once started I can go down to 6 volts...

thank you RomeroUK,  this seems to confirm a type of energy storage, like I suspected.


@ All,

A DC motor model is appended in the figures below for reference as I discuss a few aspects of this dynamo.  (this was taken from here:   http://www.ece.unh.edu/courses/ece618/pdf/dc_motor.pdf , page 5)

Also, a diagram of the dynamo coils and the location of the hall sensors and motor coils is appended showing the forces applied to the rotor, which are in opposition to each other.  This will facilitate a discussion as follows:


Motor Forces and Timing


1)  Let's begin with the second figure showing the location of the hall sensors.   Because of their location relative to the position of the coils, Peterae over at overunityforum.com  realized that the coils can not both be operated in ATTRACTION mode as RomeroUK  stated.    So due to positions of the hall sensors, one coil has to ATTRACT (coil 5, for Clockwise motion)  and the other coil (coil 9) has to REPEL, IF WE WANT BOTH COILS TO AID THE ROTATION, which is what LOGIC would dictate.     However,  just like romero said,  both coils opperate in ATTRACTION.   This implies the torques exerted on the rotor are OPPOSING EACH OTHER.   The jerking back and forth of the rotor, when power is applied, is also an indicator that two things are fighting each other, as this would not happen quite so violently or not at all, if both coil polarities were configured the "correct" way according to LOGIC.

2)  The 2 hall sensors stay on for different amounts of time, and also turn on at slightly different times.    This is because one is triggered from the large rotor magnets (coil 5), while the other from the small magnets embeded on the edge of the rotor.    Coil 5 is thus powered on during a larger rotor angle, and coil 9 for a shorter angle,  and at a perticular speed this translates to different ON times.

3)  Due to the differing On times of the two motor coils,  we see that Romero starts the dynamo in the CLOCKWISE direction, which implies Coil 5 is the one that provides the force in the correct direction,  and also has the LONGER ON TIME.   This is why the clockwise direction is the prefered direction.



But now,  what happens to the other coil that is trying to "put on the breaks" or SLOW DOWN the rotor, and has a shorter ON time, which obviously can not win over the coil with the longer ON time?



Pulsing and Polarities


Due to these recent revelations about the the motorizing coils it is only appropriate that we focus our attention away from the GENERATOR coils and to the two MOTOR coils.   

1) As stated,  one of the coils (coil 5) is the one producing the correct torque on the rotor for a clockwise rotation.   The emf that is induced in this coil is as shown in the DC motor model picture.   In order to inject energy into the rotor, a current has to flow into the positive polarity of this EMF, which translates into power input to the rotor through torque application.

2) The other coil, (coil 9) because it opposes the rotor, and tries to slow it down, is pulsed with a supply voltage that is aiding the EMF in this circuit,  meaning  voltage Va is reversed in polarity from what is shown.  This than begins to drive a current in a dirrection opposite of that shown for current I, and since the current is now comming out of the positive polarity of the EMF voltage,  this implies energy is being delivered from the EMF which translates into a slow down of the rotor through torque application on it.   (these are not new concepts, over a 100 years old basic motor dynamics) But where this energy goes is discussed next.

3)  Notice that the models include the inductance and the resistance of the windings.   In this motor the inductance plays an important role, since the time constant (L/R) is very large compared to the duration of the on time, which means this motor is efficient and very little losses go into I^2 R losses in the windings.  So, as the coil is drived with  -Va polarity, current begins to increase and build up with a rate close to (Va + EMF)/L = di/dt,  and this stores energy in the inductance and ultimatley BACK INTO MAGNETIC FIELDS THAT INTERACT WITH THOSE OF THE ROTOR IN MOTION.   

4)  So this is quite interesting,  as the coil is turned off,  it's diode than conducts and RECOVERS the COLLAPSING MAGNETIC FIELD of the coil PLUS (or MINUS) WHATEVER OTHER EXTRA IS OCCURING DUE TO MOTION OF THE ROTOR.   This is quite complex, but the magnetic fields are getting warped while in motion.   And than while in motion they recoil and launch a magnetic wave that travels at faster speeds than if stationary, because the motion of the rotor is added to it.   Now we are realy getting bogged down because a discussion of relativity is where this might be heading.

5) (one other comment I wanted to make)  But, because of the short ON time,  the I^2 R losses are small,  and most of the 12 watts of energy that is put into this dynamo, when NOT loaded, flows into the EMF of coil 9, and into a form a magnetic distrotion of the fields in motion.


I'll continue to ponder this dynamo ....  and add stuff as it comes to me.

EM


PS.  teslaalset,  I considered the capacitor and other things as possible storage places, but I exluded the capacitor because we were shown the voltage unloaded (15 volts) and loaded about 12 volts.  I've also through of material STRAIN energy in the ROTOR, since the coils opposed each other.   Like bolt said,  these devices make unusual noises.  If I remember correctly Sweet VTA device made some horrable growl at one time?     

Ismael Aviso seems to be doing a similar thing to motors as they run.  Shorting and Pulsing at max voltage conditions.  And as the current oscillates,  it ACCELERATES AND THAN BREAKS the rotor in a cyclical fashion at high frequency, so very similar concepts are occuring with this dynamo:     WE ACCELERATE and than WE BREAK, in a cyclical fashion,  BUT WE ALWAYS ACCELERATE A LITTLE LONGER THAN WE BREAK, SO WE MAINTAIN THE SPEED. 


EM

[bolt]

neptune link=topic=11009.msg291133#msg291133 date=1308156116]
@Bolt . It is obvious to me you are a man of knowledge and experience .You have spent time and money obtaining this . I have always said that understanding the technology is much easier than understanding the psychology behind it .
         OK so the bottom line is this . How is the alternative energy scene different now from what it was 10 years ago .

10 years ago i say 99% of people that had the faith to recognise OU as being a real possibility were seeking something missing, something very special, something science never had a clue about except for a hand-full of people that apparently "knew" and were holding out to the highest bidder. The energy source was given special names like  Energy from the Vacuum or Zero point Energy or anything else to grab our attention while a million books, DVD's and "scriptures" were written but none actually broke it down into pure science that could take the theory up to the next level of a practical OU device.  Like in today's medicine there is no MONEY in CURES only in selling more drugs to appease alike OU research enthusiast like more DVD's and  $19.99 sets of plans! Of course the internet itself has played a massive part in this change.

THEN came the bombshell it turned out the road to OU is basically resonance. RLC leads to OU.

Its so damn simple people were sick to the thought of they wasted so much time and money and it was there ALL the time. Now in the last 5 years all we talk about on here is resonance yet this was virtually unheard off before then till the little toys like Joule Theif's, Dr Stifler SEC's really got peoples attention to see how 200 LEDS can be lit for days on one AA battery using nothing more than RLC resonance methods. So it has been a collective journey and one where all of humanity needed to wake up and smell the roses. We are not there YET but pretty Damn CLOSE!


At that time people were looking for , as a minimum , a device that could be built for less than say 200 dollars in a home workshop . It would have to run a load of say a minimum of 5 watts , and feed itself . It would need to be capable of replication by a person of average DIY skills .The tuning and adjustment would need to be fairly straight forward .Its overunity would be demonstrated by its self running . 10 years on , what has changed .

Mindset and the willingness to accept change and take a chance that what you was taught at uni or college was mostly crap and creates a mental blockage and its very hard to overcome this aspect.  You can already see despite the Muller replications they are not flying off the end of the production line as self runners!!  The encroached school theories keeps people distracted from finding the correct tuning methods. Yet at the same time only an understanding of Pure Radio Frequency techniques  is all that is required to furnish a working device.

Can you show me such a machine ? 

The easiest device to loop is the Rotoverter as 3 phase induction motor around 5 HP can be tuned very easy by anyone to run on 10 watts at 120 volts as a demonstrator of resonance technology. Using a pulse width adjustable inverter with amplitude control it will run at 3000 rpm of very heavy cast motor on just about ONE WATT compared to the usual demand of 650 watts just in idle power alone.  Can you see if the driver is only one watt how easy to make a lug free generator?? Well sure it take time and money which i don't have in R & D but in recent years there are at LEAST a dozen loopers and maybe a lot more where people just do it in private and never say a word.

Have you ever built such a machine .

NO but i worked with RV for a long time just over 9 years now. Im currently working on HHO looping gensets.

It is not impossible that such machines exist , but the people who know , are for whatever reason , either unwilling or unable to show us .

ABSOLUTELY!  you can bet your life on that. If Romero never came out with his Muller would it make other devices any less real?


    Free Energy is not a religion ,faith is not enough . I don`t want to spoil your optimism , but what do you say .

I say the sooner people embrace it the better. Notice how many debunkers are no where to be found now a couple of devices have "hit the streets"  Sure there are moaners but the collective force behind us is heading in the right direction.  But remember a full disclosure does not secure a right to OU.   Romero's muller has been proof of that. It takes people of the right calibre to make the grade and not a minute too soon as we are at the 12th hour of 2012 almost here.