Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Farmhand]

thanx conradelektro.im more a electrochemist than electrician but im looking for evidence of a 2nd law thermodynamics violation amongst electromagnetic systems as i have found plenty evidence in electrochemical systems.could you or perhaps anybody else here tell me if you have ever verified(to yourselves) that the kickback energy on any coil inductor has ever been measured to be greater/larger than input energy?  Many thanks

No I never have. When a coil is not in a stronger external polarized field I don't see how it could. I mean if the surroundings are net neutral (fluctuating around zero point), then
we feed a coil with current and it alone is what polarizes the surroundings, then when the current is stopped suddenly, we get back only what we put in with losses because that is all there is there to get.

But if the surroundings are pre-polarised with a field strength or density exceeding that produced by the coil then when the current is stopped it may just tap some energy from the external magnetic field. This is not OU it is tapping an external field, to exceed the strength of the field created by an electromagnet would not be easy and may well affect the coils or the cores parameters, though in my head it might be possible. The field would have to be artificial no natural magnetic field (such as that of the planet) would exceed that of an electromagnet. I think it could be possible but to what effect and to what end I cannot say. Maybe I'll try some experiments with that idea. I have no doubt it has been tried and experimented with before. But in what way is the question. If I find anything interesting I'll be sure to patent it immediately.    Kidding.

Transformers with magnets inside them and so forth come to mind. If I do the experiments I will make definitive measurements and hide nothing. Better to think for a while first.





A pulse motor can be made to charge it's supply as the magnet approaches under attraction but that slows the rotor down as per Lenz law. At some points in the video below it charges the supply (which has reverse blocking diodes behind a capacitor so the motor could charge the supply cap but not the supply battery, the setup was charging a charge battery in series with the supply battery (indicated by the 24 volt charge output level) the rotor magnets charged the supply cap to almost 24 volts before powering the coils, but the supply was only 12 volts.

Motor was slow because it was driving a universal motor shaft which I mounted the rotor on, the motor underneath caused a lot of unnecessary
drag, I'm working on a free spinning pulse motor design now which will have a horizontal and rotating shaft that can be loaded.

See the wave form in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mRVjbXNLBs

Cheers

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

I have an important point for you and feel free to verify it for yourself.  All the talk you read about putting magnets inside coils and adding external biasing magnets to pulse motors or putting magnets inside transformers is not going to give you anything extra.  it may be that adding an extra magnet to a pulse motor will give you better performance, but it won't be for the reasons that people think.  There is a perception that adding a magnet inside a coil may give it an extra "kick."

The reason this is a futile endeavour is deceptively simple:  Coils only respond to changing magnetic fields.  When you have a magnet in the presence of a coil that is static and not moving, then the magnet "disappears" from the viewpoint of the coil.  So all non-moving magnets in pulse motor or transformer or related experiments are simply "not there," they are invisible to the operation of the circuit.

To many this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the way Mother Nature works!

MileHigh

[Farmhand]

Farmhand:

I have an important point for you and feel free to verify it for yourself.  All the talk you read about putting magnets inside coils and adding external biasing magnets to pulse motors or putting magnets inside transformers is not going to give you anything extra.  it may be that adding an extra magnet to a pulse motor will give you better performance, but it won't be for the reasons that people think.  There is a perception that adding a magnet inside a coil may give it an extra "kick."

The reason this is a futile endeavour is deceptively simple:  Coils only respond to changing magnetic fields.  When you have a magnet in the presence of a coil that is static and not moving, then the magnet "disappears" from the viewpoint of the coil.  So all non-moving magnets in pulse motor or transformer or related experiments are simply "not there," they are invisible to the operation of the circuit.

To many this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the way Mother Nature works!

MileHigh

I'm referring more to a polarizing field, not so much putting magnets on cores. I did say I have no evidence, it's just a thought. I might experiment with it.
Mainly I was explaining why I think nothing extra can come from normal coil operations.

It's already been shown that what seems like the way mother nature works to you is not always the case. eg. the bifilar winding (B) discharging the energy from a magnetic field created by winding (A). This is a simple concept but you could not see it ?

My reply was post 1190, some before and some after. I get it and have for some time. Just because we don't  talk the same lingo as you doesn't mean we know nothing.

If anything it is how you were told mother nature works, mother nature needs no words.



Cheers.

[Magluvin]

When you have a magnet in the presence of a coil that is static and not moving, then the magnet "disappears" from the viewpoint of the coil.  So all non-moving magnets in pulse motor or transformer or related experiments are simply "not there," they are invisible to the operation of the circuit.

To many this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the way Mother Nature works!

"So all non-moving magnets in pulse motor or transformer or related experiments are simply "not there," they are invisible to the operation of the circuit."

No, thats not how mother nature works silly. 


Irving M Gottleib  Regulated power supplies 4th edition Page298  Magnetically biased chokes and transformers. 

Mags

[Farmhand]

So MileHigh, am I to assume that you think two superimposed magnetic fields with matching polarization orientation will not interact ?

No one is saying the coil will be excited by the external field. Why would you imply that ?

Cheers

Edited: to add person post was directed to.