Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[conradelektro]

@Gyula:

I thought about your suggestion to use both magnetic poles of the coil. But I do not have the mechanical talent to build such a C-shaped core or to modify an existing core in the right way. Therefore I will stay for the time with my most simple design.

Concerning the pulse duration: to do this in a versatile way I will use an Arduino (I have the new Arduino Due), but this will be a future project. The optimal pulse duration for a spinning ring magnet would be 25% N, 25% off, 25% South, 25% off.

Concerning a drive coil with less DC resistance: I built several pulse or Bedini motors in the past and I came up with the high DC resistance relay coils as a drive coil because they seemed to work in a more efficient way than low DC resistance coils. For some strange reason a pulse motor seems to works better with higher Voltage (12 Volt and more). And when going to a higher Voltage the drive coil should have a higher DC resistance (very many turns of wire) in order to keep the current low. There will be higher losses (copper resistance) in the coil, but they seem to be minor in comparison with the efficiency gain of the pulse motor when driven at higher Voltages. I might be wrong, but my (rather crude) tests led me in this direction.

Lenz free coils: Now, good people, let's hear some Lenz free coil designs? Pancake coils with secret ingredients? Coils with embedded magnets?

In my set up such a magic coil only has to produce 0.15 Watt at 3000 rpm in order to go OU. The spinning ring magnet (25 mm diameter, 7 mm hight) is Neodymium NdFeB / N35, so plenty of magnet power. It is difficult to remove tools (screw driver, wrench, pincers) once they are caught by this magnet.

Well, sounds too good.

Greetings, Conrad

[gyulasun]

Hi Conrad,

Regarding the use of both magnetic poles of a coil, I think it must be designed in advance to have a mechanical setup for supporting that goal, unfortunately, and even then it can still be difficult to build it, using preferably off the shelf cores etc. And to rebuild a certain,  already differently working setup can be even more problematic.

Using an Arduino to have variable pulse width or duty cycle gives indeed more versatility, albeit in case of this 25% on-off sequencies (with changing pole polarities) valid for this ring magnet may not warrant its use, strictly speaking. Nevertheless it can give many variations, easy to use and good for many pulse motor types.

I understand the higher voltage-less current approach for the pulsed input coil(s) as you have found in building pulse or Bedini motors.  I believe a great number of pulse motors built in this "free energy quest" by many tinkerers have used mainly 12V DC input voltage due to the widespread availability of the car batteries or some multiples of 12V. I also believe that this 12V greatly "defined" the coils more or less 'optimal spectifications' as the wire diameter and number of turns are concerned, to be able to recapture enough energy for recharging again the 12V battery (preferably from the same coil(s) which are the input coils) in a range from say 7 AmperHour to some ten AmperHour capacity. Very few of the replicators have changed input voltage either below or above 12V and even less changed coil specs.
It is the AmperTurns which defines the strength of electromagnets, and many variations exist to have the needed AmperTurns for a job. For relay coils the many thousand number of turns (from very thin wire) involve relatively smaller input current than for instance Bedini style pulse motor coils etc. At the same time many relay types exist with given sizes for certain jobs, this indicates that coils should be 'designed' to fulfill a needed job, preferably in the most optimal way,  your approach to vary supply voltage surely helps finding the optimal input power parameters for a chosen relay coil, especially if you occasionally try other types of relay coils. And the non-continuous but pulsed operation of such motors lets using higher input voltages than the original relay coil, mainly destined for a 100% duty operation.

'Lenz-free' coils...  is there such?   Bill Müller may have had such with his stepped winding technics. Pancake coils? It needs to be thoroughly explored how to utilize their interesting magnetic pole positions.

Keep up your excellent work.

rgds,  Gyula 

[MileHigh]

Hoptoad:

I think I finally see how the bi-filar coil works in figure 19 for the motor drive coil.  It's really quite ingenious.

When the transistor shuts off, bi-filer winding A shuts down completely and current stops flowing through it.

Bi-filer winding B is wrapped around the same magnetic flux as bi-filer winding A and basically "hijacks" the field collapse and takes over the discharge of energy and pumps it into the battery.

To be more accurate, winding A is trying to push current through the transistor but it is blocked.  Winding B on the other hand has smooth sailing to pump the energy into the battery so that's the way the discharge goes.  So it's almost like a magnetic switching function is taking place.  Charge winding A -> discharge winding B.   "No rules are broken."

The rule I thought was being broken is if you look at the top of winding A, current has to flow down into the winding when the transistor shuts off because that's how coils work.  With this clever configuration that doesn't have to happen, the winding B coil "picks up the slack" and allows everything to work like it is supposed to work.

This circuit could be used on Bedini motors to recycle the pulse energy less the losses that you have to endure with respect to the charging efficiency and subsequent discharging efficiency of the battery itself.  No more need for neons.  (Ha ha I forgot the spike is supposed to go into the charging battery.  I was more focused on the "motoring" aspect.")

MileHigh

[hoptoad]

Hoptoad:

I think I finally see how the bi-filar coil works in figure 19 for the motor drive coil.  It's really quite ingenious.

When the transistor shuts off, bi-filer winding A shuts down completely and current stops flowing through it.

Bi-filer winding B is wrapped around the same magnetic flux as bi-filer winding A and basically "hijacks" the field collapse and takes over the discharge of energy and pumps it into the battery.

To be more accurate, winding A is trying to push current through the transistor but it is blocked.  Winding B on the other hand has smooth sailing to pump the energy into the battery so that's the way the discharge goes.  So it's almost like a magnetic switching function is taking place.  Charge winding A -> discharge winding B.   "No rules are broken."

The rule I thought was being broken is if you look at the top of winding A, current has to flow down into the winding when the transistor shuts off because that's how coils work.  With this clever configuration that doesn't have to happen, the winding B coil "picks up the slack" and allows everything to work like it is supposed to work.

This circuit could be used on Bedini motors to recycle the pulse energy less the losses that you have to endure with respect to the charging efficiency and subsequent discharging efficiency of the battery itself.  No more need for neons.  (Ha ha I forgot the spike is supposed to go into the charging battery.  I was more focused on the "motoring" aspect.")

MileHigh

Glad to see you got it. Sometimes things are so simple it's hard to see the forrest for the trees!
Winding B can feed the collapsing magnetic field energy back to the source battery as shown, or it can be offloaded to another battery.
Cheers

[hoptoad]

snip...

This circuit could be used on Bedini motors to recycle the pulse energy less the losses that you have to endure with respect to the charging efficiency and subsequent discharging efficiency of the battery itself.  No more need for neons.  (Ha ha I forgot the spike is supposed to go into the charging battery.  I was more focused on the "motoring" aspect.")

MileHigh

It doesn't necessarily work as efficiently in a true bedini motor circuit as it does with a hall or optical or even mechanical switching control. Whenever a regenerative coupling to the collapsing field is introduced, it changes the dynamics of the interaction between rotor and coil, influencing the rotor induced signal waveform, sometimes dramatically.

A true bedini circuit derives its transistor base signal voltage / current from the induced flux of the passing rotor magnets via one of the windings of the core/coils.

That's why they often need a small physical kick start on the rotor to make it spin in order to provide a signal voltage / current to the transistor base.

Coupling a recycling output to the main drive winding of the core/coils not only changes the drive coil's discharge time curve, but also by mutual transformer action induces waveform changes to the signal winding. Because the drive coil switches larger currents than the signal winding, it has a dominating influence on the mutual induction between the two windings.

Sometimes there will be a benefit, sometimes there won't. It mostly depends on the inductance / impedance of the coils, which determines whether the recycling circuit discharges its stored energy before the rotor hits the 50% duty cycle marker, between pulses, and whether the signal waveform remains relatively true to the voltage / current polarity induced by the rotor magnets.

Cheers