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[profitis]

but of course @mark E.any battery voltage depletes as the system tends toward the primary driving force,electrochemical equilibrium.and so it goes with e.g. the wikipedia oxygen concentration cell.the only difference being that theres a gas pressure differential across electrodes at equilibrium in order to flatten the voltage out.this is spontaneous. I think that karpen,s own ideas about his battery fits in very well with todays catalyst gas spillover model and with concentration cell model.the evidence from higher-powered relatives supporting this in my opinion.i think it wont be long before we see practical applications at an affordable price on the shelves or integrated with electronic items.

[MarkE]

but of course @mark E.any battery voltage depletes as the system tends toward the primary driving force,electrochemical equilibrium.and so it goes with e.g. the wikipedia oxygen concentration cell.the only difference being that theres a gas pressure differential across electrodes at equilibrium in order to flatten the voltage out.this is spontaneous. I think that karpen,s own ideas about his battery fits in very well with todays catalyst gas spillover model and with concentration cell model.the evidence from higher-powered relatives supporting this in my opinion.i think it wont be long before we see practical applications at an affordable price on the shelves or integrated with electronic items.

Profitis, since we seem to agree that the Nernst equation describes systems that drive towards equilibrium, I am at a loss as to why you state that the Nernst equation is not premised on irreversibility.  If we take your example of a concentration cell, my understanding of the Nernst equation is that it predicts the voltage of the cell as that cell goes from a starting state of two disparate concentrations with a resulting measurable voltage potential and energy capacity to an equilibrium concentration with no voltage difference and no remaining energy capacity.  I don't know of any means to get such a cell to start building up disparity in the concentrations that does not require outside work.  So, it changes from the disparate concentration state to the equilibrium state by itself but will not go the other way without external work. 

By the definitions I am familiar with: whenever outside work is required to drive between two states in one direction, but not in another, the process is not thermodynamically reversible.  Do you know of an electrochemical reaction where there are two distinct states that have no difference in energy?  My understanding is that the no difference in energy is required for thermodynamic irreversibility.

I have not located any verification of Karpen's claims for his cell's performance.  Nor have I found successful replications.  Being unable to determine if a particular thing has happened makes it difficult for me to research what might be responsible for that speculative behavior.

[profitis]

@mark E its easier for me to explain with the diagram below which depicts a hydrogen electrode concentration cell,s energy  cycle diagram before discharge (A) and after discharge (B).the electrochemical entropy requirement trumping both temperature and pressure entropy requirements toward equilibrium between two inert electrodes of differing work functions under hydrogen beginning at equal pressure(they can even be the same metal).heat is absorbed from the environment at one electrode and spat out at the other when going from A to B toward equilibrium(switched on) then heat is spat out to the environment at one electrode and absorbed at the other when going from B to A(switched off)both directions are spontaneous.one direction toward electrochemical entropy(on) and the other direction toward gaseous decompression entropy(off). You have to replicate one of the higher powered hydrogen concentration cells suggested here in order to study it appropriately.pH2= hydrogen pressure difference and Ep= electrode potential difference

[sarkeizen]

@mark E its easier for me to explain with the diagram of a pair of pants.  See the entro-pant-ry between the hem length...

Yawn...No formal argument I see.  No surprise.

[MarkE]

@mark E its easier for me to explain with the diagram below which depicts a hydrogen electrode concentration cell,s energy  cycle diagram before discharge (A) and after discharge (B).the electrochemical entropy requirement trumping both temperature and pressure entropy requirements toward equilibrium between two inert electrodes of differing work functions under hydrogen beginning at equal pressure(they can even be the same metal).heat is absorbed from the environment at one electrode and spat out at the other when going from A to B toward equilibrium(switched on) then heat is spat out to the environment at one electrode and absorbed at the other when going from B to A(switched off)both directions are spontaneous.one direction toward electrochemical entropy(on) and the other direction toward gaseous decompression entropy(off). You have to replicate one of the higher powered hydrogen concentration cells suggested here in order to study it appropriately.pH2= hydrogen pressure difference and Ep= electrode potential difference

Profitis are you telling me that without consumption of external energy one of these cells will recharge itself?  Are you telling me that it is the luck of the draw that one of these cells discharges towards equilibrium versus moves towards 100% concentration in one cell half and 0% concentration in the other?