Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[TinselKoala]

(snip)

(1) Measure Pin and Pout and compare.
(2) The way to get Instantaneous Power is to capture the Instantaneous Voltage and Instantaneous Current.  Then multiply them together.  This can only be done on a Digital Storage oscilloscope(DSO).

No, there are other ways too. A good idea would be to check your DSO results by using an INTEGRATING WATTMETER.

Please contact the following person and ask him if he can rent you a proper INTEGRATING WATTMETER or Power Meter for a few days. Similar companies may be closer to your location.

John Bahng
Test Equipment Connection Asia, Ltd.
Unit E4, 7/F  Phase I, Kaiser Estate,  No. 41 Man Yue Street, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Office: +852 2690 1360            Fax: +852 2690 0638            Mobile: +852 9379 7195
jbahng@teconnectionasia.com
www.teconnectionasia.com

(3) Apparently, very few researchers approach the research from this angle.  Much time and energy is being spent in this forum on – whether the DSO was calibrated correctly; whether the connections were done properly; etc. 

This is extremely important and it is not possible to spend too much time and energy on assuring that your instruments are working properly and are being used properly.
Do you recall the AC vs DC coupling issue? This is basic oscilloscopy and something that was causing large errors in your computations, and the issue itself showed that you didn't understand certain basic features of scopes or properties of signals.
Do you recall the probe compensation issues? Again, basic oscilloscopy, as basic as turning the unit on with the power button. But your probes were badly compensated and were introducing large errors in your measurements. And the voltage issue from the one probe has _still_ not been properly explained, nor have you shown unequivocally that it has been corrected.
Do you recall the sign issue involving the current direction? The issue of the input voltage probe's measurement needing to be corrected by subtraction of the reading of the other probe?
By my count that is at least 5 major issues regarding scope usage, calibration, connection, and interpretation. There are probably others that we have not yet uncovered. These issues add up, and had we here not found them and pointed them out, you would be standing in front of experts making these severe blunders in public for all to see.

(4) Most of those who posted questions do not have DSOs to do the experiments themselves.  They all have good experience in building Joule Thief circuits.

Once again, you are saying that a DSO is necessary to observe your high COPs. On that we are agreed. It is really too bad.... and is really significant.... that you, or anyone else, cannot obtain the necessary high COPs by any other method than using a DSO in the manner that you are using it.

(5) My research focused on proving and confirming that the Average Output Energy can indeed be higher than the Average Input Energy (COP > 1).
(6) The posted experimental evidence is that the Input Current can be in the positive or negative direction – giving rise to positive or negative Average Input Power.
(7) That implied drawing energy from the Battery or recharging the battery.
( The COP can be very large (either positive or negative) because the Input Current can cross the zero axis.  This means current flowing in both directions.  It is NOT the conventional AC.  It is pulsed in nature.
(9) A theoretical model assuming a "hidden" pulsing source in the circuit could explain all the experimental observations.  This "hidden" pulsing source is the Lead-out Energy.

The value of the research is NOT in understanding or improving the Joule Thief Circuit.  It is in the confirmation that Energy can be Lead-out.  This opens the floodgate for many other circuits – Lasersaber Joule Ringer, Steven Mark TPU etc.

Continue your brilliant research.  Get a DSO and DC Power Supply.  God Bless.

Contrariwise. You STARTED with your Lead-Out Energy Theory, and you have been trying to find proof of it ever since. You are not trying to DISPROVE your hypotheses, which is how science is actually done, you are trying to PROVE them. The distinction is very important. You are also engaging in circular arguments and begging the question: You are asserting things as "proven" and then using those conclusions as input to your arguments that the things are proven.

[NickZ]

  Hey TK, and All:
   This thread was becoming very, very boring. Until now. But, it beats watching soap operas, maybe. I have to admit that I just had to laugh at some the comments posted.

   How many years will it take to show without a doubt that the simple and inefficient Joule Thiefs that have been tested, (by you know who), even the best board tested, is nothing more than an overrated battery killer. Slow, but sure as the sun is coming up again tomorrow. It's not OU, it's OK, meaning OverKill.  It's all good for a laugh, if nothing else. 

  I kind of miss Gadget, and his meltdown, runaway, JT reactor tests. Self runner, and all... As well as Kooler, and his "special diodes" 5 month non-stop running, backwards JTs.  Those were the days... my friend, we thought they'd never end. But, they did end.
 
  I'm still using my several Jt devices, as night lights. It's nice to be able to get up out of bed at night walk around the house, to take a pee, get something to drink, etz... and not trip over anything.

  Thanks for your replies. Good to hear that you are trying to put some sense back into this thread. Although it may be falling on deaf ears, I'm afraid. As well as blind eyes.
As the only point he is making, are his own illusions.

   NickZ
                                                                       
   

[ltseung888]

Advice from a Hong Kong Government Consultant (a Retired Former Senior Official).

"Send multiple Boards to different departments and Law Makers.  They will find the experts and the high end DSOs.  Tell them this will make Hong Kong the Leader of Energy Research.  With multiple, competing groups aware of the information, serious action will be taken."

Here is Board 108 to one of the Political Parties.
*** added the full DSO analysis file with updated circuit diagrams.

[ltseung888]

Here is Board 109 for Hong Kong Groups.

I shall NOT post the diagrams for over 100 Boards.  They will be similar.  Thank you to all for the help in correcting the errors in my early analysis.

I sow seeds.  Let others calibrate and set up their DSOs.  Let them develop products.  Groups in Hong Kong are in a privileged position - the cost of a Board including postage is less than USD5.00.  I already have donations to cover the cost of 100 boards. 

Hong Kong and China will now start on the race to mastering Lead-out Energy.  God Bless.

[ltseung888]

 

No, there are other ways too. A good idea would be to check your DSO results by using an INTEGRATING WATTMETER.

Please contact the following person and ask him if he can rent you a proper INTEGRATING WATTMETER or Power Meter for a few days. Similar companies may be closer to your location.

John Bahng
Test Equipment Connection Asia, Ltd.
Unit E4, 7/F Phase I, Kaiser Estate, No. 41 Man Yue Street, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Office: +852 2690 1360 Fax: +852 2690 0638 Mobile: +852 9379 7195
jbahng@teconnectionasia.com
[/font]www.teconnectionasia.com

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@TK

Thank you for the information.  Apparently, they have 4-CH high end DSOs and the experts to calibrate and use them.  Instead of travelling to Shenzhen (a 2-hour journey), I can get to this place within 30 minutes.

Instead of waiting for poynt99 for his 4-CH results, I shall work with this group before the Top Universities.  They may be able to point out more errors and improve the experiments.  Now I do not need to solder boards or set up complicated DSOs.  I can focus on sowing seeds.

God has HIS ways.