Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY

[a.king21]

Following on the investigation:
This also lead Tito  to an "aha" moment:
http://www.overunity.com/6734/real-ou-effect-to-share-with-everyone/150/#.UqjulJDZdWA


look at hartiberlin's schematic.
The contact has to be as fast as possible before any current flows.

[Khwartz]

   Khwartz:
   Unfortunately only a handful of people in the world have taken the time or opportunity to replicate any of the devices that we've been discussing, throughout all these pages, including the power monitoring device that Verpies has been talking about.
Will you be the first??? And show us all it's actual working usefulness, which would convince the rest of us to try to make it ourself?

Understand and I would do it if I could have any time and test to do it. I am electrician but very dislike electronics. But if I could create enough income for my family to survive, I could take time to replicate a more "electrical" device and verify any claim of overunity, prove it possibly, by the methode I advise myself: the calorimetric. But I am here as espistemologist and logician to help in the methodology and understanding/analysing what could goung on. As it is intellectual work it change my mind of very objective work in construction in my day. But thanks for your concern.

[Khwartz]

Nope! It is measuring REAL, or "TRUE" power: P [W] = R.I^2. It is the REACTIVE and the APPARENT ones we don't get by the calorimetric method you have well described (thanks).

APPARENT = REAL + REACTIVE
According to the above vector sum, it would be illogical for the Apparent Power not to have any calorimetric effects, while Real Power did.

Understand you but "academically", "classically", not. Inded that it why we call it "real" when the power produces a "real" effect.

Reactive comes, of the shift of phase, it is an energy stored in time but restituted to the power supply. Unless you avoid this power to return to the power supply or the grid, the balance of this stored power is zero. But this applies more to electrical motors; the out-power of the motor will be the "real power" minus mechanical wastes.

Also, if hypothetically: only the Real power did the heating of resistors, whilethe Reactive Power and Apparent Power did not, then the following Wikipedia quote about Reactive Power would not make sense:
If you are still sure that you are correct, you should go to that Wikipedia article an correct it.

OK, I think I see the point now:

We need to know if we are talking about the lines or the load.

For a motor, only the REAL power will correspond to the mechanical power of it. It will take e.g. 10 A under 100 V but with a power factor of 0.80, so can provide 800 W max of mechanical power while APPARENTLY the power is 1000 W.

But indeed the current is 10 A and these ten amps will dissipate P = RI^2 in the lines and it will be a REAL power.

If the lines are 10 ohms, they will dissipate 1000 W too! (That's why in pratice the grid companied need 3 kW to deliver 1 kW only!

But true, if we have a pure reactive load under voltage, the lines, which are resistive, will dissipate REAL POWER, but it is not THE POWER OF THE LOAD, it is THE POWER OF THE LINES.

It is late here for me after day of work(4:30 am) and body very sleepy to explain clearer.

The question is very relevant i.m.o. and may be useful to clearly differentiate here. So I will come back in better shape on this subject.

Thanks for noticing the question.

P.S.
My W-->V converter, converts Real Power to Voltage., so e.g. connecting a capacitor to an AC voltage source through this converter, will cause it to indicate almost ZERO V, because the capacitor draws only Reactive Power and practically no Real Power over integer number of cycles.
Can you state they same about the rationometric calorimetric measurement of the same capacitor connected by a resistor to the same AC source?  ...a resistor that is being heated according to the I²R relation.

What I start to understand is that we are not speaking of the same think.

I think you think we should use a resistor in series with a capacitor to measure the real power consumed by the capacitor. But it not that way! Lol

We want the measure a real outpower of a device so we use a pure thermic resistor as load and we check the evolution of the temperature compare to an other, etc. We do not use the cap as load! And if we could have this idea we would find for theoretical pure resistor still zero real power because no heating at all, as with your W->V convertor, so for me it is very the same.

BTW, it is the real power we are interested in it because it is this one which corresponds to the heating if we want to heat a home or corresponds to the mechanical power if we want to power motors. Just THE REACTIVE POWER GIVES A KIND OF WASTE in the lines respect to the power really used at the end of the lines.

It is what probably making you say that the reactive power can heat the lines, but it depends if we consider to include the lines as loads or not, to know if we take the point of view of the voltage at the begining of the lines or at their ends.

Lets say we include the line as resistive loads in series with a pure reactive load.

The reactive load will have an impedance equalling to its reactance: Z = X, e.g. 100 ohms.

The lines are purely resistive R = 50 ohms.

150 V is applied to the whole, so at the beginning of the lines.

The current in the lines and in the pure reactive load will be: E / (X + R) = 150 / (100 + 50) = 1 amp.

The power dissipated BY THE LINES  and AS REAL power, will be P,lines = 50 * 1^2 = 50 W.

The power dissipated BY THE PURE REACTIVE LOAD  and AS REAL power, will be P,lines = 100 * 1^2 * cos90° = 0 W, but its APPERENT (so very well said so!) will be: (150 - 1 * 50) * 1 = 100 VA. What I mean is these 100 VA (and 100 VAR as S = X by hypothesis here), participate in NOTHING to the power consumption of the lines, if not to REDUCE IT! (juste imagine no reactive load in the cicuit and you will get immediatly 1.5 amps under ditectly the 150 V, so 225 W of heating joule effect!).

Do you see my point?

[Khwartz]

I don't see how anyone can successfully replicate, or even attempt to replicate a device if that device had not been measured and adequately detailed. Neither Geo's or Igor's devices have been detailed in build sufficiently for an accurate replication to be made. Neither of these guys have fully detailed their coil builds or produced a full set of electrical measurements that can be used as benchmarks for an accurate replication. If you do manage to light a bulb fairly brightly, how much power is it consuming compared to Geo's or Igor's lamps and how do you know that their bulbs have exactly the same electrical parameters as your bulbs. I'm sure most of us can light a bulb or two with a Mazzilli to varying degrees of brightness but without proper measurement and detailed build specifications its going to be a case of  - "my bulb looks brighter than yours" - with neither party knowing which bulb is consuming the least power v lumens and which device is the most electrically efficient. As for looping back the devices, with setups so inadequately detailed like this, to show and prove self-running is just 'pie in the sky'!

You are right again, Hoppy. And that is why I have already suggest the rule to NEVER ACCEPT A DEVICE TO STUDY BEFORE THE CLAIMER DEMONSTRATES PROPERLY////// AN O.U., OR SELFLOOP. Then the replications are usful and needed to check how it function and why; but not before!

[Khwartz]

   Yes, that is all true. However, that's not so much my concern.
   My concern is providing a useable light source for my house, one that works. Not to prove the point, or read the values on meters, or seeing if my device works better, than someone what someone else has, or not.
  As mentioned, I'm still looking for the reason that Geo's system can light bulbs many times brighter than what I've been able to do. And then loop it, hopefully without overheating the components.
  Geo has done a nice job of detailing the diagrams, and telling us about the coils, their winds and turn counts, and so it should be possible to replicate, and obtain similar results. Why no one has been able to so, is still a mistery. But, no one has actually done an exact replication, yet.
I do agree that there is something that we don't know about yet though.

  I'm a bit worried about Geo, not continuing on with us as he mentioned. I feel that something is possibly not right, and I hope that he is ok, and he's just having a good time with his "gf" on the island.
  In any case we need to do what we can on our own, as no one is going to do this all for us. Those guys both have shown us what is possible, so that we can improve upon their builds and ideas, as it's not a done deal yet.

For my concern, even if all looks very promising, Geo has NOT yet proven any o.u. nor sefl-looped, still because of inaccuared measurments, and if like others claimers he will disaper it will be because we start to insist too much on these points; but hope I am wrong and he will do what it really takes to prove the possible o.u.

BTW, if I would be a petroleum guy, I would discourage the quest by the same way: giving hope and then disappointing because of no true results; I mean no true COP > 1.