Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

[RandyFL]

Gyula,

On Woopy or Kehyo: perhaps a kind inquiring personal message to each of them could bring you answers?

Isn't that what the forum is for...to share ideas...to inform.../... I thank you for your willingness to share.

On the quote you repeated from the link: please keep in mind that it is the input energy which supplies BOTH the magnetic energy in the core (or coil) and the magnetic energy in the gap. It is fortunate that in the air gap (which is made in an otherwise closed magnetic circuit) more magnetic energy can be found than in the core, the sum of the two energies makes up for the total input, (minus the losses).

How can a air gap have more energy than the primary core...in a magnet circuit... air gaps are to be considered the resistor ( reluctance ) in the equation

A straight bar or I core has an 'infinite' air gap around it so it is hard to excite into saturation. Of course it can be done, a mere question of AmperTurns.
However, when you arrange straight bars close to each other, conditions for saturation may change, depending on how the magnetic circuit can develop towards a possible closed or closed-like  circuit, and in this case you can reduce saturation by decreasing input current, either by reducing input voltage amplitude by a Variac or connecting one of the input wires to a tap on the input primary coil (if you provided some taps beforehand, that is).

Wouldn't the secondary " load " be drawing energy and Flux ( or is that a figment of my imagination )...?

Where does the spark come from ( the Lenz Law ) when you connect up to a battery or when you connect a line cord up to the mains as you enter the socket there's a slight electric spark...Tesla was fascinated with that spark....

Lastly...the 12 volt lawnmower battery provides the current, the 9 amps ( per BDX53 ), which is delivered to the primary and the " gap " as energy to create a magnet flux.........which causes a magnet field...........but where does the energy come from in the secondary s... ( one is either in the free energy camp or not :-)

All the Best
Randy

[NRamaswami]

Gyula, Randy:

The objection by Randy is to this portion of Gyula's reply.

On the quote you repeated from the link: please keep in mind that it is the input energy which supplies BOTH the magnetic energy in the core (or coil) and the magnetic energy in the gap. It is fortunate that in the air gap (which is made in an otherwise closed magnetic circuit) more magnetic energy can be found than in the core, the sum of the two energies makes up for the total input, (minus the losses).

I see that there is nothing wrong in the statement per se. However there is an exception to this general rule. The exception is that when the opposite poles of a magnetic core have an air gap, the energy in that part is not dictated purely by the input. It is dictated by what is the strength of the opposing magnets and how close they are to each other or how short the air gap is. In this case the energy in the air gap is not purely based on the input.  I may possibly be wrong if you conclude that the energy of the magnets is due to the input only. However if the magnetic power goes up the power in the gap that can be extracted also goes up by 24.4 times. The air gap probably contains ionized air and that carries more power than what is in the magnetic core itself. I really do not know.

However Gyula never ever indicated that the output from the secondary that can be taken cannot be more than the input. A very ordinary coil arrangement can produce more energy than the input. Figuera demonstrated two such coil arrangments using opposite poles. Similarly Gyula never indicated that you cannot make a very powerful magnet by providing less energy. If the magnet is more powerful the air gap between the opposite poles is also more powerful.  This I have found possible in my experiments. I have already posted how to provide as low as 110 watts and provide a very powerful magnetic core. It is not just ampere turns but the number of parallel and mutually aiding rotating magnetic fields that are responsible for the magnetic field strength. Greater this number of rotating currents greater is the magnetic field strength and for this you do not need a high amperage input.

A.King

Sir..Thank you very much for your post. .basically you appear to say that the higher the frequency higher the output but that output cannot be taken out without switching off the input and so never be obtained is what is disclosed or stated in books.

Higher the frequency lower the input amperage. If the frequency is higher, input amperage cannot go high. It will come down. Let us forget the design of devices and look at principles only.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We do not need a LC Tank circuit for increasing the frequency. Simple wires can be modified for this purpose and frequency can be easily increased. The energy can be taken out without swithcing off the input. Both the output voltage and amperage can be increased easily and can be higher than the input. I have found it to be true in my experiments.

A normal transformer type of coil will however give only the equivalent of input minus losses in the secondary and you need to use the power between opposite poles to obtain higher output than input. Modifying the coils more can give so much of voltage and amperage that the secondary wire can also burn out..How..

We know that charged contra rotating plates like in Wimhurst generators will provide enormous amount of voltage without amperage.

Now if we put in between two opposite poles of electromagnets a coil of the following type we get both higher voltage and higher amperage.

The coil is first wound along with the primary to increase the magnetic field for two layers - single wire. Coil No. 1

The two wires are wound like a bifilar wire Coil 2 and 3..

Here the difference is the end of coil 2 is connected to end of Coil 3. So we have the coil 2 increasing the magnetisation and coil 3 cancelling out the magnetization. This coil 2 and coil 3 are charged contra rotating spirals.
Then the beginning of Coil 3 is connected to beginning of Coil 4 which is wound as in coil 1 and 2.

This arrangement sits in between two opposite poles. The contra rotating spirals cannto cancel out the magnetization or the attractive force between the two opposite poles of two electromagnets but they would increase the voltage as the contra rotating spirals are present. Since the increase of voltage must result in the increase of amperage when the coil is placed between opposite poles the output would be far higher than the input..

You can reduce the input by using normal multifilar coils but increasing the number of coils to above 10 would prevent you from taking from the primary any thing above 100 to 110 watts. It is not possible to more more current. If you put Plastic iron rods and plastic between each layer of such multifilar coils the magnetism would be tremendously increased because the number of mutually aiding rotating currents or rotating magnetic fields is very high and it increases the magnetic field strength. Each iron core placed between the different layers also incresases the magnetisation and in the center of the core you have tremendous magnetization. This is some thing I have found in practical application. You simply need to make two such giant cores and put a smaller core to connect the centers and then wind the coils 1,2,3 and 4 as I indicated above to get a tremendous output from the output coil than the input.

It is not in dispute that the coils get the energy from the input but the resulting magnetic field can be easily strengthened with less input and as the secondary output is based on the magnetic field strength the output is not connected to the primary input.

There is no violation of law of conservation of energy here. The air gap between the two cores contains 24 times more energy than what is contained in the iron core..I do not dispute it. Closer the air gap greater the attractive force. It is the law of nature. When you wind coils in this space you are able to take more power out of the secondary. This is what is indicated in the patents of Figuera both in the 1902 and in the 1908 patents. I have simply followed him.

I understand that the concept of electrostatics and electromagnetics is not combined in any device to produce higher voltage and higher amperage. I suspect that when contra rotating charged wire spirals are subjected to opposite magnetic fields both voltage and amperage would go up. In this arrangement the contra rotating spirals cannot cancel the attractive force between the opposite poles created by the primary.

This is an experiment I have not done. I do not have the facilities for this but I suspect that unless we can calculate and reduce the output voltage the output wire may burn out due to very high current.

You can easily check by winding a multifilar wire of 200 meters and each wire being for 15 meters wind about 13 or 14 coil multifilar wire and see that is the amperge taken. A small device can be used for this and the input amperage will not go up beyond a particular point. You can make a simple transformer arrangement and give a lot of load and you would find that whatever be the load on the secondary the primary cannot draw more power than its limit.

The primary multifilar coil impedance can be calculated like this..

Resistance of wire No.1 x 3 for coils 2 x3 for coil 3x 3 for coil 4 etc.. For a 100 meter 11 filar 4 sq mm wire I found that we have some thing like 29524 ohms and the primary would not consume more 0.5 amps when connected directly to the mains and the primary coil end when connected to load of lamps will not show any current not even milliamps at the output. This is because the frequency has gone up tremendously in the coils or let us say the resistance or impedance has gone up tremendously in the coils. You can replicate the experiment and see for yourself.

[RandyFL]

Rams,
I'm merely stating what I experienced ( in the beginning ) a spark ( that scared me - whilest the 12 volt battery burnt out my low power 555 - from Radio Shack )...

that spark is what gave Tesla the inspiration to go into AC...

My question to Gyula or anybody...
Is that spark the " Lenz Law " ( the opposing force - or whatever its called ) is it sitting in the air gap whenst the 12 volt battery energy goes to it...

My second question is... In the magnetic circuit the air gap is " reluctance " = resistance in the electronic circuit
put another way its...

V I R ( Volts Amps Resistance )  =   mmF  Flux reluctance  ( mmF = amp/turns ) Flux = current  reluctance = resistance...........
I hope that's clear :-)

going back to my second question... how is the gap reluctance ( resistance ) stated...
( Rams...I am answering my own question Lol.........the " Gauss meter " measures how much pull from the amp/turns...the Mu is the permeability of metal ( iron or annealed sheet steel )... they reach a saturation point and re adjust ( bigger iron or more laminations )
the air gaps are used commercially as a way of dealing with saturation - wider gap more resistance....................................
that's why transformer manufacturers don't want to hear about Tesla and/or Figuera....they either don't know ( cuz its not main stream science ) or they know it would effect their bottom line = profits...

Here in America...you produce something that's unique and esoteric ( they buy you out ) or call the men in black as a security issue or fire hazard to the local authority  ( Rams whats it like there )...

In conclusion...whether you're building the Ramaswami apparatus or the Figuera the amp/turns is the key... and in the Figuera the gap is your friend..........in the primary that is .......who knows what going to happen in the secondary.........stay tuned....

we return you to your regular scheduled program ( the outer limits ) OMG I'm getting old...

All the Best
Randy ( not my real name ) ( My real name is *7887NNN****xxx ) LOL

ps I think I need some more sleep

[gyulasun]

....
How can a air gap have more energy than the primary core...in a magnet circuit... air gaps are to be considered the resistor ( reluctance ) in the equation
....

Hi RandyFL,

Consider an electric heater connected to the AC mains, say 120V. Suppose the heater is rated at P=1kW.
Now find its electrical resistance, that is R=V*V/P i.e. 120*120/1000=14.4 Ohm   
Now ask yourself: how it is possible that 1000W heat is generated in a 14.4 Ohm resistor while the wires leading to the mains and the wires in the wall leading to the utility source do not warm up significantly?
The answer is the wires are chosen to be good electrical conductors and the heater is the "roadblock" in the closed flow of energy between the AC source and the heater.

The same is true for a magnetic circuit with an air gap: the cores with a decent magnetic permeability can guide magnetic flux with small loss but the air gap cannot, hence the input energy "has to" accumulate in the gap, it is available there for usage but keep in mind it came from the input energy.  It is correct to consider an air gap as a resistor (indeed a reluctance).

Re on the spark: I assume it is due to Lenz law when you connect a circuit to a voltage source, many circuits are inductive in our household enviroment. 

Re on where does the energy come from in the secondaries: all I can tell you is it must come from induction between the primaries and the secondaries
In case of the Figuera setup, accepting his setup really had extra output, then he did not include the how to. IF I knew, I would tell you. 

to NRamaswami

Thanks for your thoughts, indeed you correctly understood what I meant. Considering what you wrote as a possible exception, I think you meant to add permanent magnets to the core of electromagnets, is this correct?  If you did not mean that then I am not yet sure how you meant... 

Greetings,
Gyula

[NRamaswami]

Gyula:

Thanks for the message..I did not include the possibility of any permanent magnets. They are not needed.

You can wind two identical solenoid coils in identical manner and then connect the two to single source of AC supply. Now the Bottom of coil No. 1 is the opposite pole of Top of Coil No. 2. In between these two coils you have an opposite pole situtation. Figuera did not hide any thing in the patent and I'm really surprised that you consider that he has some how hidden some thing. The only thing that he has hidden is how the coils are wound to increase the magnetic field strength at a low input and that I have found out and put it in the public domain already. I have also eliminated the rotary commutator device which made an interrupted DC current function like an AC current. I think you may have to do the experiments to understand how simple it is. He indicates that the small secondary contained reels and reels of coils which indicate the size of the device.

In fact Pulsed DC behaves strangely. You can simply wind a coil  where each turn is spaced out to  1000+ turns and give pulsed dC from a variac using a diode bridge rectifier and when the input voltage goes to 250 volts the output voltage on a load of 5 x200 watts lamps connected in parallel becomes 270 volts. In the same coil. This is not shown when we apply AC where the voltage goes down when load is given on the load meters. Why this is so is not clear to me. And this does not happen even in pulsed DC until we provide 250 volts from the Variac. 

Similarly it requires four times the length of wire and turns to create a stable electromagnet at 50 volts for pulsed DC than the the number of turns required for AC at 50 volts. I do not understand these things.

Randy:

Hurrah Baba..We are all most humble, most loyal and most obedient servants only..No threats are needed..If some one is willing to send me $25000 I will happilly ship the coils, rods etc etc that I have here to him so they can test it themselves..India people would simply deny loans or funds if one were to do these things..Not that there is money available any way..Banks will either lend to people who would not pay and then write them off or would not lend to people who would properly pay..If you deny funds then that is more than enough..