Big try at gravity wheel

[Red_Sunset]

It's not mockery, it is how the universe works, at least at the temperatures , timescales and volumes that this machine exists within.

You've never provided any coherent analysis to prove your point. Instead you rely on  some curious form of double counting that allows you to expend the potential of some part of the system without it requiring replenishment. 

LibreEnergia,

I can agree that my initial presentation lacked "any coherent analysis to prove your point".  A more detailed clarification of that initial layout was needed, although this being dependent on the direction of your inquiry which regretfully never came.  Since the concept was written off as impossible and got entangled with an emotional fever surrounding Wayne Travis. So I have canned my tutorial intentions and I will leave it there, so peace can prevail at OU.com

Just for curiosity, can you tell me where I gave you the following impressions of understanding.
1..  some curious form of double counting
2..  you to expend the potential without it requiring replenishment.

Red_Sunset

[LibreEnergia]

Just for curiosity, can you tell me where I gave you the following impressions of understanding.
1..  some curious form of double counting
2..  you to expend the potential without it requiring replenishment.

It comes from the following 'progression' of the explanations provided over time, first by Wayne Travis and then by yourself.

Upon meeting the objections provided by many that the machine would require an energy release on each cycle  that could only come from a modification of the gravitational field to function as claimed Travis dreamed up the 'reduced input cost' theory.  Such terminology conveniently avoided the term 'excess energy' or over-unity as the working principle and avoids having to confront tricky problems such as if gravity were modified by the machine you could measure the effect simply by weighing it while it was working and noticing its weight changing while the mass apparently stayed the same.

He even made a statement similar to "We don't have an over-unity device , we have a 'reduced input cost' machine." Such word play of course is just an attempt to hide the fact that they are one and the same thing. If you produce more energy in a cycle than you consume, then this is identically equal to saying the input energy cost is less than the output.

So having settled on reduced input cost as the magic principle he then attempted to show that somehow you could shift this 'reduced input cost' backwards and forward between two sides of a machine, use its potential to cause an excess of energy to manifest and then without replenishment , shift the 'reduced input cost' back to the other side of machine and reuse it again. That part represents the double counting.

It sounds promising, except of course  the reduced input cost' is identically equal to saying an excess of energy is manifested during this process.
At this point we are back to starting proposition. Such excess of energy could only be manifest if the machine modified the gravitational field during the up or down stroke. Clearly doesn't do that, or if it did it would be easy to measure as previously described.








 

[powercat]

Hi John,
No John, not me, my prediction,

                            >>  WAYNE TRAVIS   <<
                      >>   THE MAN of the YEAR  <<
                                  Time Magazine 2014

I can not help that these guys can not get a grip on this and tell me exactly why this is NOT POSSIBLE
and need to resort to the scalding tactics
It looks like revenge has ran its course !!

Red_Sunset

Yourself and Wayne are the ones making the claim, it is up to you guys to prove you have what you claim, you both seem incapable of doing that, and as for your newspaper prediction, it's not the first time

Quote from: Red_Sunset on October 30, 2012, 10:31:34 PM

Wayne proof for Hydro Energy Revolution will be in the newspaper soon enough.

How long is soon ?  And if nothing happens this year will you apologise or just make more excuses, yourself and Wayne fit the profile of a couple of common, promising so much but incapable of delivering anything of substance

[Red_Sunset]

It comes from the following 'progression' of the explanations provided over time, first by Wayne Travis and then by yourself.

Upon meeting the objections provided by many that the machine would require an energy release on each cycle  that could only come from a modification of the gravitational field to function as claimed Travis dreamed up the 'reduced input cost' theory.  Such terminology conveniently avoided the term 'excess energy' or over-unity as the working principle and avoids having to confront tricky problems such as if gravity were modified by the machine you could measure the effect simply by weighing it while it was working and noticing its weight changing while the mass apparently stayed the same.

He even made a statement similar to "We don't have an over-unity device , we have a 'reduced input cost' machine." Such word play of course is just an attempt to hide the fact that they are one and the same thing. If you produce more energy in a cycle than you consume, then this is identically equal to saying the input energy cost is less than the output.

So having settled on reduced input cost as the magic principle he then attempted to show that somehow you could shift this 'reduced input cost' backwards and forward between two sides of a machine, use its potential to cause an excess of energy to manifest and then without replenishment , shift the 'reduced input cost' back to the other side of machine and reuse it again. That part represents the double counting.

It sounds promising, except of course  the reduced input cost' is identically equal to saying an excess of energy is manifested during this process.
At this point we are back to starting proposition. Such excess of energy could only be manifest if the machine modified the gravitational field during the up or down stroke. Clearly doesn't do that, or if it did it would be easy to measure as previously described.

LibraEnergia,
It appears that you might be overwhelmed by the whole concept,  and the fact that it rocks your fundamental believes. 
So the best solution is to simplify, reduce it into modular entities that can in some way stand on their own and become manageable.

The first thing to do is to separate concept from hardware. 
1..  Conceptional understanding:   First understand what is intended to be achieved (forget HOW you would achieve it, that comes later), don't restrict yourself with limitation such as "modifying the gravitational field ", which is a lot of bull in any case. Keep a complete open mind, be reasonable but don't put up walls.  In the end, you would be looking for asymmetry

2..  Hardware property requirements to support the conceptional understanding, don't worry if you can not see how this could be done.  But the understanding should be that if you had this defined hardware device, you could realize your conceptual understanding. (like the proposed magical lever)  It would be an asymmetric functional definition

3..  Hardware design, here you have a great advantage since you have a great lot of information already available from Wayne Travis on how it can be done. Here you turn the magical lever into a real device.  Don' think that his execution of the concept is the only model that could fulfill the HW requirements.  Look how the ZED HW supports the asymmetric process flow. You will get some Whooow experiences on the way

If you look at it in this way, the whole idea will become more systematic, manageable and focused in your mind without overloading it, compared to trying to consider all the "in and outs" in one go
Good Luck,

Red_Sunset

[Red_Sunset]

Yourself and Wayne are the ones making the claim, it is up to you guys to prove you have what you claim, you both seem incapable of doing that, and as for your newspaper prediction, it's not the first time

Quote from: Red_Sunset on October 30, 2012, 10:31:34 PM
How long is soon ?  And if nothing happens this year will you apologise or just make more excuses, yourself and Wayne fit the profile of a couple of common, promising so much but incapable of delivering anything of substance 

PowerCat,

The POT blames the KETTLE that he looks black !!
I am still waiting for your acclaimed multiple counter proofs

Red_Sunset