Double Pendulum Power

[LibreEnergia]

I have another analogy for you. Think of it as an high-frequency, high voltage(acceleration), low current(velocity) circuit 90 degrees out of phase. If you put a resistive load on it you will not get much heat because P=i^2 * R. It's the same with kinetic energy turning into friction heat.


However if you put an inductive load it should be different because P=L * i * i', where i' = di/dt, is and analogy to acceleration. This is why I expect high-voltage AC-output from a generator with an oscillating input torque.

Ok then, I suggest you try it experimentally and report back. I'd recommend using a cheap digital multi-meter to measure the output power though. It will increase your chances of an over unity result many times over

[TechStuf]

NYBT.....Interesting work.  You've obviously studied your equations.  It is interesting to note that myriad creatures make use of such efficient motions for every day travel.  The swinging of legs, arms, and wings.  Creation is permeated with endless signposts that point to the "promised land".

It's too bad that the negative nellies don't have what it takes to be granted entry.

There's still hope.  I've seen some miraculous turn arounds. 

And arounds.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fED-Ky4VEMc


TS


P.S.  NYBT, you write as one who has glimpsed the realities of that which you theorize.  I would be surprised, based on what you've shared thus far, if you hadn't seen some very interesting RL results.

[nybtorque]

Ok then, I suggest you try it experimentally and report back. I'd recommend using a cheap digital multi-meter to measure the output power though. It will increase your chances of an over unity result many times over

At this point it would be more interesting to discuss the actual analogy and physics... Or should I take it as if we agree on the theory?

[LibreEnergia]

At this point it would be more interesting to discuss the actual analogy and physics... Or should I take it as if we agree on the theory?

No.. we don't agree on the theory. Your assertion that you can remove energy from the system and have it continue without stopping is unfounded. The analysis you are using to support your theory is wrong.

You do not model the forces at the pivot between the two pendulums correctly. You ignore a damping force proportional to the power extracted. You cannot extract that power without affecting the transfer of momentum between the two pendulums. For your theory to hold the momentum transfer between the two would be unaffected by the counter torque at the pivot caused by attempting to extract that power.

Also if there is an excess of energy available to be tapped it would already have been manifested. The energy of the combined pendulums would increase spontaneously, but that doesn't happen.

[nybtorque]

No.. we don't agree on the theory. Your assertion that you can remove energy from the system and have it continue without stopping is unfounded. The analysis you are using to support your theory is wrong.

You do not model the forces at the pivot between the two pendulums correctly. You ignore a damping force proportional to the power extracted. You cannot extract that power without affecting the transfer of momentum between the two pendulums. For your theory to hold the momentum transfer between the two would be unaffected by the counter torque at the pivot caused by attempting to extract that power.

So, now the damping force is proportional to the power extracted, not proportional to angular velocity? If I try to put myself in your shoes; I guess you still mean the same thing. I.e only kinetic energy can be extracted at the pivot, or am I wrong?


But then again, please explain to me what you do with the oscillations and where the energy needed to counteract the angular acceleration come from when you increase friction at the pivot?  Does it also turn into heat, or do you just ignore it? Actually, to counteract the oscillations you will need to actively apply a momentum of the same magnitude in the opposite direction. Go figure!!!! Friction will simply not do, since it IS a function of VELOCITY and not acceleration.

Also if there is an excess of energy available to be tapped it would already have been manifested. The energy of the combined pendulums would increase spontaneously, but that doesn't happen.

Well, it both does and does not... The kinetic energy of the system is constant. It can be shown with the model. If you take kinetic energy out of the system for example by friction you need to replace it. No doubt about it.  However, the energy do manifest itself through powerful oscillations. These oscillations are basically "free" as they consists of angular acceleration originated from the centrifugal force, and are considerable in a system rotating at high frequency. These are also part of the model and manifests itself as "potential" energy from the "artificial" gravity created by the rotation.