Just how big is the FE Scam Industry (in $ millions annually <10, 10-100, >100?

[lumen]

Between 10 and 100 million is my estimate.

Your not even close!

Don't forget the Hot Fusion scam that's been going on for 50 years and hopes to continue for another 50!

It must surely be into the Hundreds of Billions by now.

[MileHigh]

Lumen,

I know that there is a kind of "chip on your shoulder" phenomenon between free energy enthusiasts and legitimate science.  At least we know that the science for hydrogen fusion is legitimate - we know there is a source of unlimited energy there if we can overcome the technical hurdles.  They are targeting a commercial reactor by 2050.

On the other hand, BlackLight Power is a high-profile free energy scam that has been in operation since 1991 and a while back I read that the total take so far is about $400 million.

From Wkipedia:

Analysis of the theoretical claims by physicists has resulted in the conclusion that the proposed theory is unphysical and inconsistent with the highly verified equations of quantum mechanics. Analysis of the experimental claims in one paper, it was noted that detection equipment reportedly used was not capable of making measurements. Independent experiments not funded by or affiliated with BLP have failed to corroborate the claims of the theory.

Several prominent physicists have criticized the proposed physical theory, calling it "fraud", "extremely unlikely", lacking corroborating scientific evidence, a relic of cold fusion, and questioning the wisdom of those who invest in it. IEEE Spectrum magazine has been especially critical, pointing out that BlackLight has made similar claims before, announcing that it was on the brink of commercializing its revolutionary technology but failing to deliver.

On a smaller scale, take the example of Inteligentry, a black comedy buffoon farce if there ever was one.  I think over the past three years that John Rohner took in somewhere between one and two million.  He claimed to be making "plasma motors" and he posted a video tour of his offices.  The bizarre thing is that there was no kind of motor test bed anywhere in sight.  Such is the level of buffoonery that the con artist was not smart enough to realize that the video tour of his offices was exposing him as a scammer to those that knew what to look for.  Of course he made the video thinking he could con some more money out of people by impressing them.

MileHigh

[Ein~+ein]

@einstein.dont go jumping to giant conclusions too quikly.but i agree with you that many scamguys out there.as i said to markdansie before its actualy a good thing that scamguys exist as they are creating a security bubble for the real guys and massively drawing attention to the quest for alternate energy.

And just what 'giant conclusions' have I jumped to too quickly?   All I'm asking for is some convincing evidence which few can provide. And what's this about the need for a 'security bubble'?

[Pirate88179]

Between 10 and 100 million is my estimate.

MH:

Heck, Solyndra alone hit us taxpayers for 535 million, not to mention the amounts for the other 5 "Green Energy" companies that went under after getting huge bucks from Federal grants.  To me, that is a scam as their records showed that it cost them like 250% more to produce their products than they were selling them for.  Were they really just that stupid about business, or was it deliberate?

My guess would be between 10-100 BILLION.  What do you think?

Bill

[MileHigh]

Bill:

I don't disagree with you in principal, I suppose it depends on how you want to define the issue.

I know that there were a lot of publicly funded solar panel startups from various "green initiatives" of the US government that failed.  The Chinese undercut them so these grandiose business plans apparently completely ignored the "elasticity" issues with foreign competition.  So you can argue the government decision makers in control of the purse strings and the lobbyists and the corporate managers and their failed business plans were fools for not looking at all of the angles.  Of course nobody can predict the future, and it's probably the hardest thing to do when it comes to technology.

But were they scammers?  I suppose it depends on your point of view.  I am assuming the failed solar panel companies had a legitimate product that worked.  But at the same time, for sure when the government launches these kinds of funding initiatives that there are scammers out there that present legit looking business plans and get their funding.  Then they just burn through the cash and go bust without really wanting to be successful.  It's just an exercise in going through the motions to get the public funding.  They are the worst leechers feeding at the public trough.

So for me personally I am not including the "big energy busts" in the sense that I give the players the benefit of the doubt that they were sincere.  Not that I am truly knowledgeable about this stuff.   On the other hand you can look at Enron, even though they were a public company (if I recall correctly) and not directly funded by the government, they played an energy and investment shell game and robbed billions of dollars from innocent people.

MileHigh