Artificial Gravity Power

[nybtorque]

First of all it acts back according to the third law.
Secondly, it acts back on the housing of the bearings. If the bearings are
of a good quality, than it absolutely is not affecting the rpm of the unbalanced disk,
the outer pendulum itself. Look at the Milkovich for example. The outer pendulum
keeps going as a normal pendulum with only friction losses, unaffected by what
the inner pendulum does (hitting an anvil as a hummer).
In the Lagrange case, the outer and the inner pendulum are interconnected by their
ends, which is a completely different case.
Regards

But when the inner pendulum acceleration acts back (Newton third law, as you say...) on the housing it will either pull or push the rotating pendulum mass so that it either accelerates or decelerates depending on the angle.


This is the case with Milkovic as well. I've done a simulation with a pendulum where each pendulum mass is 10kg, the inner pendulum lever is 1m and the outer lever 0,5m. In reality Milkovic uses a much heavier inner lever which will make the amplitude and variations smaller, but nevertheless existent.

[telecom]

But when the inner pendulum acceleration acts back (Newton third law, as you say...) on the housing it will either pull or push the rotating pendulum mass so that it either accelerates or decelerates depending on the angle.


This is the case with Milkovic as well. I've done a simulation with a pendulum where each pendulum mass is 10kg, the inner pendulum lever is 1m and the outer lever 0,5m. In reality Milkovic uses a much heavier inner lever which will make the amplitude and variations smaller, but nevertheless existent.

It will not push the mass, it will push the bearing of the axis.
The problem is that your simulation doesn't reflect the reality because you are using the wrong physical model.
you started with the oranges, but applying them to the apples.
Take a look at the video video of the Milcovich pendulum - the period of oscillations is the same, not as in your simulation.
I learned in school that someone said the reality is the criteria for the truth.

[nybtorque]

It will not push the mass, it will push the bearing of the axis.
The problem is that your simulation doesn't reflect the reality because you are using the wrong physical model.
you started with the oranges, but applying them to the apples.
Take a look at the video video of the Milcovich pendulum - the period of oscillations is the same, not as in your simulation.
I learned in school that someone said the reality is the criteria for the truth.

But, the period IS the same in my simulations... It's the amplitude that varies. This is kind of hard to verify in the Milkovic videos since he is pushing the pendulum each oscillation to overcome friction.  However it is easy to verify the uneven motions of the inner lever which is a result of the momentum transfer.

[telecom]

Your point was that the inner pendulum affects the outer pendulum as per lagrange model. However,
in the current model, which is different from lagrange, an outer pendulum is not being affected by the inner one.
Take a look at Milcovic videos -  what happens when he stops pushing?
The pendulum oscillates unaffected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvst47E5CvM
No matter how elegant are the equations of lagrange, they are not applicable.
You need to use different set of formulas, which is not very hard to derive from the equations for the centrifugal force.
This video confirms this:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-3)_Fast_model.wmv

[nybtorque]

Your point was that the inner pendulum affects the outer pendulum as per lagrange model. However,
in the current model, which is different from lagrange, an outer pendulum is not being affected by the inner one.
Take a look at Milcovic videos -  what happens when he stops pushing?
The pendulum oscillates unaffected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvst47E5CvM
No matter how elegant are the equations of lagrange, they are not applicable.
You need to use different set of formulas, which is not very hard to derive from the equations for the centrifugal force.
This video confirms this:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Video/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-3)_Fast_model.wmv

Unfortunately I don't understand your reason for the conclusion that Euler Lagrange is not applicable in the Milkovic case. Centrifugal force is a very important part of the Euler Lagrange model. Basically it's only a description of the Newtonian force equilibrium for each of the pendulum masses... As I see it there is no other way to do it. 


In my opinion the videos verify the model. The pendulum amplitude looks unaffected, but that is only because the amplitude of the inner lever (pump) is so much smaller and because of friction slowing it down pretty fast. However it is easy to se the uneven movements of the inner pendulum lever; i.e. one bigger move followed by a somewhat smaller, and so on... This is a result of the momentum transfer. Look at the graph below which verify this variation.


I would say that Euler Lagrange this is the best way to show overunity from the double pendulum on a theoretical level. The centrifugal force is essential as it creates the "artificial gravity" which makes it possible to to extract work, not from the kinetic energy input, but from the oscillating potential energy of the system. Milkovic and Feltenberger pendulum pumps are good examples of this concept.