How to make multiple Kicks

[Farmhand]

Bruce, if the kicks have energy than it took energy to produce them, saying otherwise is saying you can create work or energy from nothing.

Electrons do not scoot along wires at great speed like the charge does. Electrons hardly move much at all when a current is flowing and powering a load with very fast charge.
In my opinion the electrons only move a bit as they transfer charge to each other.

As I see it in an conductor with AC applied the electrons jiggle back and forth as charge is transferred between them with a net movement in relation to the energy consumed I think.

And I think in a conductor with DC applied they just jiggle a bit and move slowly along the wire in one direction as they pass charge to each other. The electrons certainly do not move as fast as the charge does in a conductor.  As far as I know or have been able to ascertain.

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[Farmhand]

Yes but how can we measure directly the flow of charge related to displacement current across a gap or dielectric like an air capacitor. If the electrons do not cross the gap then how does the charge get from one plate to the other ?

The finer points are definitely not easy to wrap our head around without the extensive training so we ought to be satisfied that it just does.

Does anyone dispute that the electrons in a conductor do not scoot along the conductor at the same velocity as the charge ?

As I said it is the basics and the principals behind it that matter, and is what is lacking, in my opinion.

Would it be true to say we can have electrons with different levels of charge ?

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[MileHigh]

Here is some food for thought:

According to classical mechanics, I calculated that if an electron were to be accelerated through a potential difference of about 257 kV, it would breach the speed of light. Now, according to relativistic mechanics, this is obviously untrue. So, what are the mathematical corrections to be made whilst calculating the speed attained?

What I did was:

qV = (mv^2)/2 [Electrostatic potential energy = Kinetic energy]

How do I correct this using relativistic mechanics?

The relativistic kinetic energy is (γ - 1) × m₀ × c², where γ is the Lorentz factor.

If you use that in your equation, 257 kV will accelerate an electron to 0.747 c. (And, for reference, a potential of ten times that - 2,570 kV - will accelerate an electron to 0.986 c. A hundred times that - 25,700 kV - to 0.9998 c. And a thousand times that - 257 MV - to 0.999998 c.)

So electrons moving at (close to) the speed of light don't come cheap!

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

Note you can also have changing magnetic flux though the coil to induce current flow also.

For the displacement current, since you know that the current is the same everywhere in a current loop, the easiest and most logical way to measure it is to measure real current somewhere else in the loop.  It really is as simple as that.

The two plates of a capacitor can act as the "glue" or "pipe" that allows the current to flow.  The metal plates can be charge neutral or hold an excess or lack of electrons.  So the AC current flow translates into charges flowing onto and off of the capacitor plates.  Think of a big rectangular baking pan as the capacitor plate and you pour a big glass of water into the center of the pan.  Voila, there is your current flow.  But there are actually two pans face to face filling and emptying of water, in a manner of speaking.

As to what is really going on, I am going to take a decent guess without looking anything up.  Between the capacitor plates you have a certain amount of electric flux.  The current flow translates into changing electric flux with respect to time.  So the "throbbing electric flux" is part and parcel of what's happening with the AC current flow.  If you could measure the changing electric flux with respect to time you would be measuring the current flow.

Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.

So, where is the current?  The capacitor is acting like a kind of transformer, and AC current stresses the eggs, throbbing molecules like so many stressed eggs.  The stronger the "spring" associated with a given molecule, the more energy you can store in the capacitor.

MileHigh

[Farmhand]

Farmhand:

Note you can also have changing magnetic flux though the coil to induce current flow also.

For the displacement current, since you know that the current is the same everywhere in a current loop, the easiest and most logical way to measure it is to measure real current somewhere else in the loop.  It really is as simple as that.

The two plates of a capacitor can act as the "glue" or "pipe" that allows the current to flow.  The metal plates can be charge neutral or hold and excess or lack of electrons.  So the AC current flow translates into charges flowing onto and off of the capacitor plates.  Think of a big rectangular baking pan as the capacitor plate and you pour a big glass of water into the center of the pan.  Voila, there is your current flow.  But there are actually two pans face to face filling and emptying of water, in a manner of speaking.

As to what is really going on, I am going to take a decent guess without looking anything up.  Between the capacitor plates you have a certain amount of electric flux.  The current flow translates into changing electric flux with respect to time.  So the "throbbing electric" flux is part and parcel of what's happening with the AC current flow.  If you could measure the changing electric flux with respect to time you would be measuring the current flow.

Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.

So, where is the current?  The capacitor is acting like a kind of transformer, and AC current stresses the eggs, throbbing molecules like so many stressed eggs.  The stronger the "spring" associated with a given molecule, the more energy you can store in the capacitor.

MileHigh

Yes but doesn't a changing magnetic flux constitute a "potential" ?

I think I'm getting the displacement current thing. I'll try to put it into my words after I read a few more times.  I'll take my time on reading your last post. Maybe days. 

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