Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped

[lumen]

I keep things as simple as I can when I am trying to figure stuff out, and to do that I include, in your drawing, the virtual arm that goes from the axle of "A" straight out to the CoM of the weight, this is the force that the weight brings to the system.

This virtual arm then has an angle to both the "A" "C" arm and the "B" "C" chain arm, this force tries to pull "B" forward in the direction of rotation but also tries to pull "A" backwards, fine so you reverse the direction of rotation so now it is trying to pull "A" forward but now it is trying to pull "B" backwards.

This is the resistance to rotation I am seeing, and to what extent that force is, I am not sure of.

The chain is never connected to "A" in a way that it can detect any pull.
If you rotated "B" and raised the weight, would "A" rotate, No
If you rotated "B" and lowered the weight, would "A" rotate, No
If you remove the weight or add to the weight, No
If you cut the chain, No (maybe wiggle)
If you remove the weight and apply a rod to the center of "C" and rotate it, does "A" move, No

Because "A" can only see the center to center force of "B" to "C".
The chain is independent of "A" on both ends and can have no effect.

I'm not saying this works, but whatever prevents it from working would also prevent concept 2 from working also and it has no mystical properties.
To make a guess, I would think it has more to do with the direction of the artificial gravity. All gravitational vectors on the rotating system come from the center point.
The location of the weight has a different vector than the pivot point of the weight, and may cause a percentage of back drag in all systems like this. Though this could be reduced by keeping the arm short and using a larger weight.

[tim123]

Hi Guys,
  I thought it through, and I'm quite sure the back-force does get transmitted back to wheel A. Diagram attached.

You have to think about where the tension in the chain is...

Getting back to the topic...

There are plenty of machines in Stirling's QMoGen page. None of which have been validated (as far as I know):
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over

Are any of them genuine?

[lumen]

tim123,

I like the sketch with the forces as one would expect them to be. But the problem is that just rotating or applying a torque to "C" does not rotate "A".

You can apply torque until the chain breaks on "C" and "A" still cannot rotate!

This is the same setup as a floating shelf. All of the force is transferred to the stationary center sprocket and none to the rotation of "A"

Though I believe what you have drawn is close because if you draw a line from the center of "A" to the weight, I believe that to be the gravitational vector to the weight and thus the amount of pulling back on "A".

Any other force on "A", simply does not exist.

As far as the QMoGens go, I only seen one that I thought may have been real, and it used some artificial gravity torque increasing device. (not simple gearing)

That's why this is the most important part required in order to build a QMoGen unit from off the shelf parts.

QMoGen stories have been around for years and nothing comes from them. Now there are more stories because everyone thinks all you need is a motor and generator and some inverter unit to build it and it works.

Many make big claims before they even build it, then once the do, you never hear from them again. If it worked, someone would be selling them or the plans.
When you go to Stirling's QmoGen page, you can read the double talk, Phase angle, power factor, resonance, none of which can produce real power to run anything! They are either hiding their idea or covering up the facts.

Torque increasing device! Real or not.  Centrifugal force increases with RPM at very little cost.

[ingyenenergiagep]

It works. I saw in old russian video.

When the weight turn 90 degree in outside, the table (A circe) turn in opposite direction.
Turn with constant speed, the A circle turn-stop-turn-stop-turn-stop.
The rocket can turn around in the space without any fuel burning.

[lumen]

Yes Lumen, you are correct,, no matter how hard or fast I turn "B" it will not turn "A",, that is until you put the weight on the arm, now when you turn "B" you are accelerating that weight and that interaction is what will move "A" by pushing on "C" which is attached to "A" via the axle.

If you have a playground handy with a merry-go-round and you have say a 10lbs weight you can go try this without building anything.

Take a friend with you, each stand on opposite sides of the merry-go-round and with the weight in your arm held out straight and your feet firmly planted on the merry-go-round rotate at the waist to throw the ball across the merry-go-round to your friend and have them catch it in the opposite hand you threw it with,, again with there feet firmly planted on the merry-go-round.

I figure 10lbs is enough to get it rotating for you,, so the ball is thrown from the same hand by each person and caught with the opposite hand.

I am not sure how real these QMoGens are,, I have seen some massive over readings on my meters using a motor, a belt, a flywheel and an oscillating load, when the belt slips and grabs,, and stretches and stuff,, up to 10X the readings,, well it was a DC motor and the massive readings were AC,,  BUT, was there actually more power consumed or anything from that that could be converted?? that is more like TK's area

Now your getting into another entire area. Driving "B" with the intent of rotating "A".  But if that was possible then driving "A" with the intent of driving "B" would also work. The question is does it actually do that?

The merry go round concept is a bit different in that you are saying that if you put a track on "A" like a figure 8, and move a ball through the track, then disk "A" will rotate.  Doing this by hand is not a valid experiment since you can make a merry go round move with only one person standing on it and twisting and jumping. I doubt either one would work in space.


If driving "B" would make "A" turn in space, then what are you standing on to turn "B"......."A"?


I don't see why everyone here is missing the point. The idea is to move a platform in a circular path to generate an artificial gravity that would be rotating if you were standing on that platform. Then, just build a weighted wheel on that platform and let it generate power. How hard is that?