Lenzless resonant transformer

[MileHigh]

Okay so let's look at the case in your clip where you have both the left series LC tank circuit and the right series LC tank circuit running.

The first thought that probably came to your mind is that the both should resonate at about 157 Hz and you should see about the same resonant frequency.  But that didn't happen, it almost looks like the case I mentioned were you connect the two EMFs in opposite phase, cause an AC short, reduce the effective L to almost nothing, and get the high resonant frequency.

It looks like the two secondaries are shorted together in a bad way but we can clearly see that they are not shorted so what gives?

The answer is that the magnetic counter-flux from each LC resonator IS shorting through the closed-loop toroidal core!   We have a magnetic circuit short instead of an electrical EMF short!  It's effectively the same thing.

What is the root cause?  The root cause is that silly nonsensical L3 coil that straddles the toroidal core.  I already discussed the magnetic circuit for that core when it is being driven by L3.  I said that the magnetic flux leaves the "top blue" travels through the air, and then enters the "bottom blue."

Here is what I did not say:  When L3 drives the toroidal core as a quasi-cylindrical core, the left half of the toroid has CLOCKWISE flux, and the right half of the toroid has COUNTER-CLOCKWISE flux at the same time.  It's totally nonsensical!

Therefore, when L1 and L2 are in "normal resonance" at 157 Hz, the counter flux generated by each winding is CONNECTED by the toroidal core and you get a near-perfect MAGNETIC FLUX SELF-CANCELLATION, a magnetic SHORT.  Hence, for ALL AC excitation frequencies, there is a near magnetic short-circuit and the effective inductance L is reduced to a very small value.  If L1 and L2 were a perfect match, the self-resonant frequency would be "infinity" (divide by zero.)

So this one was "revenge of the nonsensical L3 and associated magnetic circuit - explained."

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Itsu:

I may have the beginnings of the answer to the mystery of why the resonance frequency jumps up so high when you are driving both secondary tank circuits.  It's an incomplete answer and I am feeling my limitations.  (I think I just figured out the key clue, you may be able to confirm it for yourself.)

For starters we know that the angular resonance frequency of an LC tank circuit is 1/Sqrt(LC).

Since the resonance frequency jumps up very high when you connect the two separate series tank circuits, let's make the assumption that the effective L decreases dramatically when both tank circuits are connected.

Now here is a thought experiment:  Remove both capacitors and drive the setup through L3 like normal.  We now have a transformer setup with L1 and L2 as secondaries, with a "bizarre" core that resembles a "cylinder" inside the L3 coil.  The "top" of the "cylinder" is the upper exposed blue toroid.  The "bottom" of the "cylinder" is the lower exposed blue toroid.  Lines of magnetic flux travel through the air between the "top" and "bottom" of the "cylinder."

Let's suppose that L1 and L2 generate perfectly matched EMF.  If we connect the L1 and L2 outputs together so that they are in phase, then it still looks like an open circuit "pair of secondaries."  The EMFs match and no current flows through L1 and L2.

Conversely, if we connect L1 and L2 together so that they are out of phase, then you will have an AC short circuit, lots of current will flow through L1 and L2, that will be reflected to L3, so that the signal generator will see L3 looking like a heavy load.  Since there is no closed loop magnetic circuit for the core, it looks like a somewhat heavy load to the signal generator and not a near-AC short-circuit condition.  If you had a true closed-loop toroidal core for L3 then it would look like much more of an AC short-circuit.  (In the past few minutes I am very confident I figured it out, and that last sentence is the big clue, but moving on....)

We know that if you have an AC short circuit, that looks like L=0.   However, we are in the real world, and the EMFs generated by L1 and L2 will not exactly match.  Lo and behold with EMFs that don't exactly match, it looks like L is very small.  That would translate into a much higher resonant frequency, so it looks like we may be on the right track.

To be continued...

MileHigh

"Conversely, if we connect L1 and L2 together so that they are out of phase, then you will have an AC short circuit, lots of current will flow through L1 and L2, that will be reflected to L3, so that the signal generator will see L3 looking like a heavy load."

L3 is induced very little if any by currents in L1 and/or L2. It s an asymmetric transformer and L3 is the primary. No other use for it in this configuration. 

Mags

[MileHigh]

I told you to never interact with me on this forum again.  The worst behaviour that I have ever seen on this forum was from you bashing me repeatedly and relentlessly.

Do not engage with me on the forum.

[Magluvin]

I told you to never interact with me on this forum again.  The worst behaviour that I have ever seen on this forum was from you bashing me repeatedly and relentlessly.

Do not engage with me on the forum.

These are your words....

http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg388214/#msg388214

" At the same time there is freedom to comment in both senses "



http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg388214/#msg388214


It's a good thing that people can comment.


http://www.overunity.com/14128/an-interesting-phenomenon-i-found/msg388223/#msg388223

People can try whatever they want, and also get comments from people with differing views


So dont give me the 'I told you this and I told you that.' 

You either stand buy your own words or YOU can stop commenting on my posts, like you just did before this one.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)   Go ahead. Tell Stefan.  You have no rights to restrict me from posting as I please. I called you no names.  I have as much posting "freedom" as YOU.  So if you want to make a complaint, Ill meet you in pm and we can discuss this with Stefan. I have no problem with that. (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Mags

[Jack Noskills]

Ok,  i tried severall things as requested, but it does not stay stable.
Whenever i change something in a coil, the other coils are out of their resonance.

When doing a resonance test for one of the secondary coils (feeding a signal in from L3), i HAVE to disconnect the cap from the other secondary.
It then shows correct resonance as compared to a resonance calculator on the web (around 157Hz).

But when hooking up again the other cap, the resonance frequency shoots up to 6.6KHz.

Same when i hook up a bulb in the right secondary, it changes the left secondary resonance once again to 4.8KHz, while the resonance of the right secondary
which contains the bulb now shoots up to 11KHz judging at the peak light in the bulb.

In this last situation we have different resonance frequencies between the both secondary coils.
When i now also add some capacitance to L3, the circus is changing once again

I feel like the guy in the drawing

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vat5Z9gfuwM&feature=youtu.be

Regards Itsu

11 kHz, now you have working replication :-) I was unable to see what was going on in the isolated LC in my setup, I could only see output light which maximized somewhere between 10 and 11 kHz.


Lets simplify the circuit so there can be only one resonant frequency. Connect those secondaries in parallel (as Mags already noticed) using just one capacitor (this was my first setup). You have CW-CCW coils so start of CW must be connected to end of CCW. C is reduced so resonance frequency will increase a bit. This is good in terms of L3, higher frequency means more blocking there.


The one time I used capacitor in L3 I tuned it like this:
1. I used L2s in parallel with just one 1000 nf capacitor in series with the load so no isolated LC here.
2. Connected load in the output and looked for the frequency that gave highest amount of light without a capacitor in L3.
3. Disconnected load so L2 side was open and placed a cap so that L3 resonated at the same frequency as the secondaries. I think cap was 73 nf (three 220 nf in series) and I got close enough.


When I tested this, I connected the L3 cap while the system was running and it gave bit more output light (10 watt and 8 watt halogens in the output). Enough to notice it. Did not notice anything in the input side as the 5 watt halogen there was not lit at all. Sweet spot did not change if I dropped the 10 watt halogen off which is good.


Secondaries should not affect primary so this tuning method worked. But there is also some capacitance between L3 and L2 that goes right under it, and also local inductance field is present from the secondaries so there can be some influence. This should be small enough to be ignored though.


With 11 kHz and higher tuning capacitor can possibly be dropped from L3 as it can block better, but I am not sure about this when using signal generator as source.