On Efficiency And Can We Increase It Beyond 100%

[gyulasun]

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But how or say why is there a gain?  Thats what im going for at the moment.

Mags

Hi Mags

In case of Ian's pulse motor setup with the more stator coils vs 1, the gain in torque must come from the less heat loss
in the coils because input current branches to the series coil strings versus the single coil case in which the same
input current suffers the max heat loss. Yet, input power being the same for both cases, the difference between
the max heat loss and the reduced heat loss makes the gain manifest in increased shaft torque due to the increased
flux available.
Of course some other explanation could also be valid, I do not know, Ian mentioned the more flux is introduced into
such setup from the extra permanent magnets to the extra coils, the better the pulse motor becomes torque_wise.

You have heard of gain in antennas like Yagi or parabolic dish having say 15 dB or say 28 dB gain referenced to a isotropic
antenna or to a dipol, etc. I can only explain their gain measured in the preferred direction if their mechanical construction
prevents radiation in any other direction and directs the waves mainly towards the preferred direction. Do they have a COP>1?
I do not think, they just create a much higher field strength in the preferred direction than say a dipole does from the
same input power (and provided input impedances are correctly matched).

No offense but we can theorize every day on such questions, tests give correct answers only.

Gyula

[Magluvin]

Hi Mags

In case of Ian's pulse motor setup with the more stator coils vs 1, the gain in torque must come from the less heat loss
in the coils because input current branches to the series coil strings versus the single coil case in which the same
input current suffers the max heat loss. Yet, input power being the same for both cases, the difference between
the max heat loss and the reduced heat loss makes the gain manifest in increased shaft torque due to the increased
flux available.
Of course some other explanation could also be valid, I do not know, Ian mentioned the more flux is introduced into
such setup from the extra permanent magnets to the extra coils, the better the pulse motor becomes torque_wise.

You have heard of gain in antennas like Yagi or parabolic dish having say 15 dB or say 28 dB gain referenced to a isotropic
antenna or to a dipol, etc. I can only explain their gain measured in the preferred direction if their mechanical construction
prevents radiation in any other direction and directs the waves mainly towards the preferred direction. Do they have a COP>1?
I do not think, they just create a much higher field strength in the preferred direction than say a dipole does from the
same input power (and provided input impedances are correctly matched).

No offense but we can theorize every day on such questions, tests give correct answers only.

Gyula

Im not one to take the resistance losses seriously enough in most cases to say that is the reason here.

My reasoning is this....

Say the speaker plays say 90db @1w,  and each time we double the power we gain 3db, period. If we get up to 1kw we end up at 120db. Now at 1w there most likely not be a noticeable resistance change from 0w. But when we get to 1kw, there will be very noticeable heat and noticeable resistance increase, yet the db increase for yet another power doubling will be 3db.

So Im thinking it is more of an increase in surface area vs the wattage. Even in a pulse motor, if we increase the number of coils, there is push/pull power to more positions of the rotor. Like you said, we are just talking here.  So these are just theoretical possibilities, of which if we are going to do tests, well these theories give us things TO look for. Like if we were going to do tests and we see gains as we go, we still wouldnt be sure what is the cause or reason for it. So then we would have to think a bit to see what and how is the cause of the gain. So then we would and should look into these theoretical areas to help find the culprit.

So just because Im thinking of these things now doesnt mean that if we didnt think on it early, that we wouldnt need to do it later.  Like if we started with 1 coil on the motor, measured, then add another coil, measure, etc, we could look at it all day and possibly never see the reason for the gain. So I look at what major changes happened when we add more, like with the speakers, the moving surface area has doubled, of which has a direct affect on how much air is moved. but then when we look at the speaker motor end, I dont see the cutting of the 1w in half for each speaker, going from 1 sub to 2, as big of a gain maker as I would the increase in surface area which would be the biggest change..  Possibly one way to test this would be to use 2 different size speakers. First test would be to measure the small one, then add the larger one. Then we do the opposite, large one first then add the smaller one.  Would need to mach some parameters like coil resistance, spl@1w, etc so that the only major difference is the surface area between the 2.  Now if we get different results between the 2 tests, then surface area may be it.  Dunno

Im beat. So I am quitting for the evening and will get back at this tomorrow.

mags

[Magluvin]

Now if we get different results between the 2 tests, then surface area may be it.  Dunno


mags

Now if the results are the same, then we would need to look elsewhere.

Mags