Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[minnie]

   Webby,
         I fully admit to a bit of flip flop, for me it's like putting a bit of fuel on the fire.
  I wanted to get to the bottom of the ZED thing and as far as I can see it's been
  reached.
      Although you state facts a lot of your assumptions are totally misguided. I know
  that you're partial to practical experimentation, have you ever been able to
  successfully transfer one column of water in to another similar column?
       Would you agree that a compression spring would work the pizza pan just
   the same as an ideal ZED?
        Would you agree that in the real world a spring would store energy more
  efficiently than a hydraulic cylinder?
                                          John.

[minnie]

   Webby,
               lift a weight with a hydraulic cylinder, like jacking a car say and you've
  stored some energy.
     All the energy in the ideal ZED is gravity, namely the head of water you pumped
  into the thing,
                        John.

[mondrasek]

You can establish any starting point that you want.  You need to define what states constitute your cycle.  If you want to cycle between State 2 and State 3, as seemed to be your intent before, that's fine.

I am sorry if you misunderstood or I misrepresented my "intent."

To be clear:  My INTENT was to see if the ASSUMPTION that an Ideal ZED acts exactly the same as an ideal simple hydraulic cylinder as it has been reduced to in pervious Analyses, was correct.

I did not find that ASSUMPTION to be correct.

I was surprised when my calculations from a specific State to another appeared to show a change in the Energy that crossed into or out of or remained in the Ideal ZED.

I was surprised because that would mean the Ideal ZED was NOT acting as a simple hydraulic cylinder.

Again, to be clear:  The Ideal ZED Analysis is not constrained to a cycle from State 2 to State 3 and back.  The correct cycle for the Analysis is:

State 1(x) -> State 2 -> State 3 -> State 1(x)

[MarkE]

What is the meaning of life.

That is as silly and global as your question:

What is the energy loss in the system due to heat, two incompressible mediums.

was.  Ask silly questions, and only silly answers are appropriate.

yep I did, but have you told us what that cost is in this system.

Which system is that Tom?  You asked: 

In the real world what would the energy loss be due to heat loss from the water.

Once again you ask nonspecific questions and don't like the answers.  When it comes to moving volumes of water around I suggest that you first learn how much energy is lost in a pipe.  Since pressure = F/area, what do you think the relationship between pressure drop and volume passed through a pipe is?

you are talking about heat loss,, and you have said that the pressure change creates heat, so no I am not.

You asked: 

What is the pressure change on the water that is needed for 1J.

Joules are a measure of energy.  Pressure is force per unit area.  You are confused again despite your protests.

This one actually has made me think before,, if it cannot dissipate the heat what happens to it??  With no heat gradient where, or how, can it go anywhere??

You asked:

If that heat dissipated is exactly at room temperature, then how much loss is there.

What you seem to miss is that heat that is dissipated raises the temperature of its surroundings.  A heat engine requires a temperature difference in order to perform work.  That is the tyranny of the Second Law of Energy.  It has the unpleasant implication that the universe is bit by bit winding itself down into heat death.

I have my own understanding on what is happening, yes I think the system can work, and no it is not cyclically moving masses around, as in, up and down ONLY, and expecting that part to provide anything out.

Wayne Travis' claims to manipulate gravity so that it is not conservative.  Even he acknowledges the obvious that if gravity is conservative, which you acknowledge that it is, there is no energy to be had cyclically lifting and lowering weights.  Under the influence of a conservative gravitational field, the energy that can be recovered lowering a weight from some height to a lower height, must be exactly spent lifting that weight back to its original height.  Since you acknowledge that gravity is conservative, you contradict investment fund funeral director Wayne's fraudulent free energy claims.  That's an inescapable fact.

There is no energy to be had moving a weight in the horizontal plane.  Only lowering a weight can release energy stored in the gravitational potential.  You are free to propose some magical alternate source of energy, but in the meantime your agreement that gravity is conservative fundamentally contradicts Wayne Travis' / HER's / Zydro's free energy claims.

You have twisted things around and then added your own wants on top of it,,

If you think so, then present your argument.  I have shown you again that your acknowledgement that gravity is conservative contradicts your support of Wayne Travis' fraudulent free energy claims.  Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying:  "No, I didn't." doesn't make an argument.  It just makes you appear foolish.

So,, no I am not contradicting myself at all.

There you go with your:  "No, I didn't."

Where did I "claim" that is the only case?

You asked: 

How much energy can a resistor dissipate at room temperature.

It is my understanding that it can not dissipate any and that is what leads to the resistance of the resistor going up.

Your statement here is the all encompassing one.  I showed you that your statement is wrong.  NTCs dissipate heat, in doing so their temperature rises, and their resistance goes down.

Which way does the resistance change?  Do they get colder, like a Peltier?

Now you are confusing resistance with temperature.  You really should crack a physics text or at least any of the many fine tutorials that are on the web.

[MarkE]

A hydraulic cylinder does not store any energy John.

This is one of those misguided things of mine I guess,, even the "ideal ZED" stores some potential after it is allowed to "POP" and that makes it not the same as a hydraulic cylinder.

It ideally does not store energy compressing the hydraulic fluid.  But a hydraulic cylinder definitely stores energy in the GPE of the constituent components.  The pathetic Nested Russian Dolls of Ignorance emulate a spring by storing energy in GPE.