Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[MarkE]

Well Mark that would depend.

No it wouldn't.  The machine has a useful output that we have yet to see, or it doesn't.  It's really quite simple.

If the accumulator is being used as a battery, as has been alleged by the skeptics, then the output would be the assist rams.

What happens inside the black box is irrelevant to what the black box outputs, or does not output.

Then the assist rams are the output and the accumulator is the input to those rams, but the production rams are working against the accumulator, pushing fluid into it under the pressure of the accumulator, so those pressures must be the same, the volume then,, it must be less coming out of the production rams than what is used by the assist rams,, but then where does the volume from the assist rams go?

No Tom:  OUTPUT, what the machine delivers to the OUTSIDE world.  Internal mechanisms are irrelevant to energy (if any) that the contraption delivers to the outside world.

I trust in Mark D's ability to make correct observations, and I trust that he would of pointed out if the production rams output went any where other than the accumulator and I also trust that he would of pointed out if anything else fed the assist rams or if the return lines from the assist rams went any where else besides the hydraulic circuit connecting everything together.

Oh, so now you trust things that Mark Dansie hasn't said he has done as being things that he has done?  That's very curious.  Do you perform seances and remote viewings as well? 

Mark Dansie has stated his position very clearly.  See for example his post #572.  He specifically has disclaimed personally making any engineering evaluation of the contraption or the claimed theory of operation. 

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #572 on: March 05, 2014, 02:54:46 PM »

I have been mentioned  in dispatches again !!!!!!!
Just to clear what ever has been said or assumed (most likely the latter) I offer the following.


1. I have visited Wayne, an met withmany members of his team on three occasions.
2. I also arranged introductions to other parties who have visited on several times advising on paths forward and assisting with advice on proof of concept requirements. (highly qualified engineers and scientists)
3. I have always maintained that on my first visit, I was impressed with the efforts, the team spirit and saw some results that were interesting. However it never passed my "two day test of self sustaining"
4. I have suggested as have  many of my friends I introduced, the the need for a POC device.
5. Wayne has many people, some very qualified working with him. I am not qualified to do analysis on:
a. Their calculations and assumptions.
b. Their methods of collecting and interpreting the data
c. Their overall theory
I have however on all three occasion suggested ways of obtaining data, and or suggesting what would be required to convince outside parties.


The engineering and building of prototypes have taken many paths over the years.


I have also been taken to task by many for not "debunking" this technology. Because of business negotiations that effect many of the people including volunteers and investors (which I am not involved in), I have refrained from setting a final time frame for a POC to be running.


On a personal note, this project has brought a lot of passion and interest from many people in Wayne s community and beyond. The real story is not always about the outcome but the journey. I look back at all my dozens of projects that never worked out, sometimes I got it very wrong.


So, I have not seen the data that convinces me, and I do hope to get to see and assist in evaluating a proof of concept one day. However until that day arrives I will continue my public stance as of interest but not supported by any data I have seen to date. Others who work with Wayne, many with engineering qualifications do believe in what they are doing and their calculations. I am a very simple person, and do not get involved in such matters until a working prototype is running run and data has been collected with acceptable methodologies.


This will be my only comment on this matter.


Kind Regards
Mark

The very community spirit that Mark Dansie says he finds so encouraging, I find has been brutally abused by the fraud: Wayne Travis.  If good people are going to put their time, money, and hearts into something it shouldn't be a Bible thumping, carnival barker's lies.

The good news is:  Viva!  Las Vegas!

[powercat]

I have four days left..
Thanks
Wayne

Four days left for what ?  before you leave the forum for ever,,, before you get arrested,,, before you discover you missed it - we will all be waiting your return hopefully sometime in October 2015.  As according to your statements you can't released any relevant information until then

Quote from: mrwayne on March 10, 2014, 11:24:14 AM
This is my Final Farewell to O/U.comI am not legally able to show TK my "Suasages" again.It is clear MarkE has only one intention... I did have hope. Wayne

[minnie]

  A hydraulic accumulator in this case would most probably be of the compressed gas type.
  This wouldn't indicate any useful power output and would be used to even the flow from
  a pump to avoid hammering etc.
      A water tower can be used as an accumulator and would supply a fair bit of power but
  would necessarily be quite large. These towers can be used in conjunction with say the
  operation of a drawbridge
     In the case of the ZED, one would assume a hydraulic motor would turn an electrical
   generator. The operation of a hydraulic motor can be likened to lifting a weight as Mark
   says.
            John.

[LibreEnergia]

What a load of garbage Mark.

You must be in a bad place to utter such trash.

So, lets apply this elsewhere so that we can understand the two POV's.

Is charging a battery doing work?

I say yes.

Is charging a battery doing external work.

I say yes.

Here, IIUC you are saying no.

...

!!####K, If this is your level of understanding then it is no wonder that you are incapable of seeing why this machine does not work.

If you are interested in determining if the charging of the battery is doing EXTERNAL work then it depends on whether the battery is internal or external to the boundary of the system under consideration.

For example, two batteries and a generator would allow you shuffle energy between the two, charging each battery in sequence. Eventually it would stop due to conversion losses of course.

However if you were to use the charge of one battery to power an external load that energy would be LOST to the system, and none would be available to recharge the other battery.

The ZED is exactly the same. Travis claims it powers an external load but it does not. It only shuffles the pre-charge potential back and forward in the same fashion as the batteries and generator described.

[minnie]

   I tried to point out that the accumulator holds next to nothing in the case of
   the ZED.
               John.