Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[TinselKoala]

The incompressible air has an ASSUMED Specific Gravity = 0.

In fact, using a compressible fluid such as real air causes more losses due to the relationships described in the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT.  The change in V due to P does change the T, by creating heat when compressed.  It is a loss mechanism only and cannot be completely recovered.  So using two incompressible liquids leads to a better performance.  And the bigger the difference between those two fluid's Specific Gravity values, the better.

Well, exactly. So why is Travis using air instead of kerosene or peanut oil? I know why.

I agree that the outside air pressure/volume does not need to be considered.  Except that the system is open to the outside air and so air can enter and exit the system freely as Pressure and Volume changes inside the system require to satisfy the Volume constraint of each internal fluid to remain constant.

In every drawing I have seen, the outside air does NOT enter the system. The "system boundary" is along the top edge of the outer air column. This boundary moves but is never penetrated unless you blow skirts or overflow the top. The only thing the outside air does is press down on the outer layer of water and it does this with the same force regardless of the column's height (within reason of course. Make a column a mile high and then pressures will change.) The outer air pressure works against your injection of fluid, I think. If it were vacuum out there you would be able to inject the same amount of fluid but with less resistance (less working against the pressure of the outside air.) I think.

[MarkE]

Well, exactly. So why is Travis using air instead of kerosene or peanut oil? I know why.In every drawing I have seen, the outside air does NOT enter the system. The "system boundary" is along the top edge of the outer air column. This boundary moves but is never penetrated unless you blow skirts or overflow the top. The only thing the outside air does is press down on the outer layer of water and it does this with the same force regardless of the column's height (within reason of course. Make a column a mile high and then pressures will change.) The outer air pressure works against your injection of fluid, I think. If it were vacuum out there you would be able to inject the same amount of fluid but with less resistance (less working against the pressure of the outside air.) I think.

I look at things a little bit differently.  We are presented with a claim that by combining certain elements there is not only major advantage over well known and much simpler machines, there is actually a way to get free energy.  Those claims are both false.

For example take the ZED technique of polluting a hydraulic piston system with air bubbles.  Even in the ideal case where the air bubbles are made from an ideal material, the result is that work is constantly lost each cycle.  For anyone who doubts this, get or construct a "U".  A pair of plastic cups, some tubing and water proof glue will do.  Place the "U" on a level stand.  Pour in some water.  Note that the levels are even on both sides.  Now force fluid from one side to the other.  That required work.  Now, let go.  The water levels equalize.  The applied work is lost.  And so it is with this serpentine mechanism where the water levels go up and down.  50" of head in one column has twice the stored potential energy of 25" in two equalized columns.  What do you get when you remove all the "air"?  You get an ordinary hydraulic system.  Ordinary hydraulic systems are known to be under unity.  So, since we have established that the ZED with its "air" bubbles even in the idealized case is less efficient than known under unity systems, we must conclude that the ZED too is under unity.  QED.

[MileHigh]

Hey!  Remember John Rohner claiming that he would show his extraordinary plasma motor at that _real_ Power-Gen trade show?  We mocked him well before the show and said that never in a million years would he show a running motor.  John claimed that he would.  I still smile thinking about the Team Rohner bumpkins standing around at that trade show while real power industry professionals walked by their booth.  Of course there was no motor in sight, and there has _never_ been a plasma motor in sight.  Yet there is still a web page out there fishing.  The same thing will happen with the prancing fluids free energy pumpitude machine.  You will never see it in your lifetime.  The only question is how the end game will play out.

[Pirate88179]

"Wayne has asked folks for money for a device that does not work, can't work, will not work, he can't prove it works...etc."

You have built it? And you have shown it does not work??? Has Mark? Has MH?  Bah, he never builds anything yet knows it all in 10 sec of looking at it, right? Well, I dont follow the 10 sec diagnosis bullony.  Just the mention of OU and the 'no it isnt' comes without the 'work' to prove it. Thats so easy. I wish I had that job. Boring but probably pays ok.

You guys can talk all you want. But you never prove that it doesnt work, just state whats in the books, all in a tight little box.


So what if Wayne has an investor. As long as its not you or your Mom, what do you care? People get investments all the time.  Sure some people get ripped off. But man you better be able to back up your statements of lies, thievery, ponzi, criminality. Wayne is not making the argument, you are. He is giving only what he said he would give, and the 2 people that are interested are being persecuted for doing what they want to do, and you have a problem with that??? So put up your numbers and show your non working device, then I will listen.  Meanwhile, why cant these 3 guys hang out and discuss what they want in peace??? No?? They must pay for their deeds!!!

Mags

OK, so let me get this straight.  If I see a woman, whom I do not know, getting robbed on the street, I should just let that happen?  After all, I don't know her, she is not my Mom or a family member....right?  Is this the attitude you are suggesting that I take?  I really hope not.

As you mentioned, I am usually impartial on things but, I was NOT impartial during the Mylow saga.  Sometimes, a man just has to take a stand.  Now, Mylow was not selling anything to anyone but, many folks were spending a lot of money trying to replicate his "working" device.  This was still wrong.  I live in a world of right and wrong.

One last thing.  I am not against the research for free, or efficient energy sources.  Not at all.  If someone had an idea for something that looked promising, and wanted to do a kickstarter type program to raise money to "look into it", that would be fine.  But, if they claim they have a working device, and a single zed is overunity by itself, and that is not true, then that is fraud.  Do you understand what I am saying here?

Now Wayne has said, he does not claim overunity but, he did.  I wonder what those investors were told?  Do you know?

That is all I have to say.

Bill

[MarkE]

Hey!  Remember John Rohner claiming that he would show his extraordinary plasma motor at that _real_ Power-Gen trade show?  We mocked him well before the show and said that never in a million years would he show a running motor.  John claimed that he would.  I still smile thinking about the Team Rohner bumpkins standing around at that trade show while real power industry professionals walked by their booth.  Of course there was no motor in sight, and there has _never_ been a plasma motor in sight.  Yet there is still a web page out there fishing.  The same thing will happen with the prancing fluids free energy pumpitude machine.  You will never see it in your lifetime.  The only question is how the end game will play out.

I remember the giant empty plastic display case.