Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[Magluvin]

MH:

Do you think it is possible that magnetic waves can be both divergent and convergent?  This is what caught my interest from Tinman's post.  What I mean is, that if there are really magnetic waves...why could they not perform like Tinman's bucket example?

I get what you mean by your post and, yes, it is getting very interesting now so I suppose I will just shut up and watch.

Bill

I believe in the waves.      As Tesla said, below radio freq, the magnetic energy wont escape the system? Something like that. So when the freq is in the radio on up, yeah. We can have an ever expanding(and weakening) of the energy in that wave. And if that wave, in 'all' directions, happens to hit a reflective wall out there, like from the inner surface of a big metallic sphere, those waves could bounce back to the center and with virtually all the energy that was used to make the wave. Except for losses along the way, like the friction, or damping from the weight of the water in the bowl, viscosity and gravity affecting the water, all that mess. 

But the water example, the freq doesnt apply as it would with a mag field wave. Afaik. Inertia would happen at any speed/freq.

When linking different things and their similarities, there are always boundaries where they cannot be linked at all. For example electricity as compared to using and example of water or air. I prefer air. Water doesnt compress, air does.  Say if we were to emulate a capacitor in a water or air example. The air would require a reservoir (or 2) that is solid, or say a container that does not physically expand or contract. But the water would need a container with a spring piston, or a rubber diaphragm. Neither is really very good in comparison to electricity, as we dont have the positive and negative attraction and repulsion with the water and air. So circuit emulations beyond simple resistive loads and pumps and/or pressurized containers to show current simulations is about all that can be done. Inductors can be made with pneumatic motors and flywheels. Switches can be valves. But as TK said, we cant simulate mag fields, or like I said, + and - charge effects of electricity.

Ok. too much talk and little sleep makes for long hopefully comprehendable posts. 

Mags

[Magluvin]

MH:

Do you think it is possible that magnetic waves can be both divergent and convergent? 
Bill

Like FM radio in your car. Some cars have 2 ant. Its called diversity ant system.  When the car is moving, it can be receiving a signal directly from the station tower, and at times be receiving a bounced signal from a tall building. Sometimes those signals can be in phase, sometimes out of phase. So in phase is a stronger signal than just directly from the tower, and out of phase, no signal at all. So the station goes in and out, not due to just a week signal from the tower or it being blocked.

So the 2 ant setup uses a process that picks between the 2 ant for the best signal, switching back and forth so the listener gets a less interrupted listening experience.

That is a great example of diverging and converging in a very complicated way as compared to the bucket. I think. 

Mags

[MileHigh]

MH:

Do you think it is possible that magnetic waves can be both divergent and convergent?  This is what caught my interest from Tinman's post.  What I mean is, that if there are really magnetic waves...why could they not perform like Tinman's bucket example?

I get what you mean by your post and, yes, it is getting very interesting now so I suppose I will just shut up and watch.

Bill

I will just take a stab at this but only with luke-warm conviction because I know that I am not an expert or even that knowledgeable in this realm.  I don't believe that there are "magnetic waves" so I will reduce my comment to EM waves.

My simpleton answer is that as long as the wavelength of the EM wave is 1/10 or smaller than some kind of circular reflecting cylinder then you will observe something like you are talking about.

So if you assume that the wavelength is one meter, then you would need to put your EM source at the center of a cylinder that is at least 10 meters in radius and 10 meters in height.   Then a point-source of EM waves at the center of the cylinder could broadcast and get an echo return signal.   The observable echo will start to disappear as the wavelength starts to increase past one meter.

MileHigh

[MarkE]

I will just take a stab at this but only with like-warm conviction because I know that I am not an expert or even that knowledgeable in this realm.  I don't believe that there are "magnetic waves" so I will reduce my comment to EM waves.

My simpleton answer is that as long as the wavelength of the EM wave is 1/10 or smaller than some kind of circular reflecting cylinder then you will observe something like you are talking about.

So if you assume that the wavelength is one meter, then you would need to put your EM source at the center of a cylinder that is at least 10 meters in radius and 10 meters in height.   Then a point-source of EM waves at the center of the cylinder could broadcast and get an echo return signal.   The observable echo will start to disappear as the wavelength starts to increase past one meter.

MileHigh

If we deal with just a cylindircal container then there are a few things that come into play:

The radius of the cylinder, the propagation velocity through the medium (the water), whether the medium is subjected to a single impulse or a repeating wave, the reflection coefficient at the walls, and finally how lossy the medium is.  For low loss media and a single pulse, the hard wall of the cylinder causes the wave to invert when it hits the wall.  A pulse applied in the middle that lasts for much less time than it takes the wave to get to the wall and return to the center results in ripples that become more and more complex and eventually drop in amplitude.  A pulse train though can have all manner of interesting effects depending on the repetition rate of the pulses and the time it takes waves to go to the edge and come back.  With the right timing either a big peak or a low null at the center are just two of the possibilities.

[tinman]

That is not true with superconducting magnets.  They go on and on and on all by themselves.  I am trying to get clarity on your ideas so that we can get to a point where we have a testable hypothesis that we can run experiments against.

Are you contending that the "magnetic wind" of an electromagnet is fundamentally different in its behavior than the "magnetic wind" of a permanent magnet?

No,i am not. What i am saying is why use power to seek power when we have the same effect without the use of power in the PM.

The comb, the air, and the paper are all dielectrics.  They are all capable of greatly resisting the flow of charge.

And yet the distance between the comb and piece of paper before the charge diferential becomes active,and the paper jumps up to meat the comb,is about the same distance a piece of feromagnetic material jumps up to meet a decent PM.

Lets look at this from current science's point of view. What explanation do they have as to why a magnetic field can exert a force on magnetically active materials?. As far as i know,they dont have one. What force/particles that have no mass can exert a force on a mass.
To me,this means that there current modle of the magnetic field is incorrect. This is like knowing how the internal combustion engine work's,but cant explain as to why it gets hot.

The facts are
1-Unlike charges attract-north field is attracted to south field.
2-Both positive and negative charges are attracted to neutral charged materials-both north and south fields are attracted to feromagnetic materials,of which may have a neutral charge,or a lower positive or negative charge than that of the magnets two poles-->this may be those materials that show a weak magnetic reaction to the PM's fields.

If we take say bismuth,which is diamagnetic,we may assume that this material creates a mirror charge(like charge) to the charge that induces it.This causes the two like charges to repelle each other. This could be one of the material needed to make our !magnetic field solar panel!. Or even better-pyrolytic graphite,-but how hard is this to get?.

So lets switch this around Mark,and you tell me what science has to say about the ability of the magnetic field to exert a force without that force having mass.