Stepped Gradient Magnet Motor

[lumen]

What I found about gradient fields is that the entire gradient has little if no effect.
The same acceleration will be seen with only the end magnet, the small steps add nothing.
I have been looking into another method because the magnetic field is totally conservative and any energy gained will be lost on exit.

There may be a way around this problem in that part of the field that costs can in fact add to a gain.
I'm thinking it's the only possible way and will explain why but it's not easy to explain without pictures to show why it just may be possible.
You can think of it like this, suppose two magnets are repelling each other and while moving them together, part of the force to repel can be used to move them closer. Now on exit, there is an energy gain because it cost less to move them together.
This is always the same and that's why the field is conservative.

[SkyWatcher123]

Hi folks, hi gyulasun, thanks for the detailed and kind reply, when i get it up and running i will be thinking about that information.
I am just about finished with the structure, bearings and shaft.
Now ready to wire up electronics and mount a timing wheel with reed switch, hall switch or commutator, haven't decided what switching method to try first.
I think i recall having a a couple stepper motors salvaged from zerox machine, for efficiency testing, when that time comes.
Thanks for the replies lumen and webby1, more food for thought.
peace love light

[gyulasun]

Hi Lumen,

I understand what you say and mostly agree with it, including the loss of energy gain on exit.  However, it is the construction of the setup I think which may define whether acceleration takes place near the end magnet only or much earlier at the smaller steps too.

Please watch this video, especially from minutes 5:27 to 7:04  (reduce audio volume to a minimum due to the embarassing background music):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxy8phi6I74  The whole video is interesting but I especially mean the time duration I have indicated above, where a good 75% arc out of  the full 360° circle is travelled by the steel ball and gets stuck in the sticky point.   

Now suppose the steel ball is fixed firmly to a holder as a stator and the rotor will be the two discs with their magnets embedded between them as shown, and the air gap between the ball and the discs would be say 1-2 mm.  Then the discs as a single rotor will also rotate the same 75% arc and will get stuck in the same way as the ball did at the sticky point (where the last magnet and the ball are the closest to each other). 

Now the question arises whether the compensation of the strong attractive sticky point as I referred to in my Reply #2 above could be done with an equal amount of repel force exercised onto the shaft of the rotor discs? 

What do you and all others think?

Gyula

What I found about gradient fields is that the entire gradient has little if no effect.
The same acceleration will be seen with only the end magnet, the small steps add nothing.
I have been looking into another method because the magnetic field is totally conservative and any energy gained will be lost on exit.

There may be a way around this problem in that part of the field that costs can in fact add to a gain.
I'm thinking it's the only possible way and will explain why but it's not easy to explain without pictures to show why it just may be possible.
You can think of it like this, suppose two magnets are repelling each other and while moving them together, part of the force to repel can be used to move them closer. Now on exit, there is an energy gain because it cost less to move them together.
This is always the same and that's why the field is conservative.

[gyulasun]

Hi webby,

Thanks for the interesting notes.  I have not built Allcanadian setup, I simply wanted to draw attention to it as a possible means to reduce counter induction in the electromagnet from the rotating magnets.  I thought that using a core with a thick enough sidewall facing the magnets to "shield" the coil behind it could really reduce unwanted induction.

Gyula

This is not quit the action you get from this pic in the real world,, BTDT and it does make a nifty dual voltage generator.

Part of the issue is that the rate of propagation of the EM field is way faster than what the magnets can move away,, so it is very hard to fire the coil off without actually pulling back on the magnet, or when waiting for a large enough space to get rid of most of the tails of the fields the force of interaction is very weak.  Maybe using a very good short pulse could do it but I had very little luck using a commutator and brush with making much torque.  Also the "kick" over the magnet is fairly large,, so a short pulse on at just the right time does make it work better than a longer between magnets firing,, from my experience anyway,, your mileage may vary.

A 4 winding toroid is also interesting when you have each winding on only 1\4 of the toroid core,, fire them off like poles facing each other.

[SkyWatcher123]

Hi folks, hi gyulasun, i'll have to give some thought to your counterbalance idea.
For now I'm just going to use trial and error on what I'm building now, then if all that yields nothing, I'll ponder your idea.
I started placing the 1" diameter neo magnets into a few holes and testing by hand, how a rotor magnet might behave.
I guess my initial linear board tests were good for that setup, though things change with different strength fields, meaning bigger neo stacks and also the gap between magnets might be a little different.
So, what i have determined, is it will now be a repulsion mode motor.
Also, i am going to test with small to large neo stack, with descending stepped stator magnets, as this seems to work well when testing by hand.
This also has the benefit of the electromagnet not needing to repulse as much into the first stator magnet stack just ahead of it.
Which will be only two of the 1/8" thick 1" diam. neos, then another identical stack stepped down a bit, then a stack of 3 stepped down and another 3 stepped down, hope that makes it clear.
Then the last magnet stack will be the strongest.
Going to have to super glue one stack at a time and let dry, as the fields mess with each other and they will not stay in place.
Back to constructing, thoughts welcome.
peace love light