Stepped Gradient Magnet Motor

[DreamThinkBuild]

Hi SkyWatcher123,

The stepped ramp always has the problem of the last magnet being the strongest to overcome, as Lumen has stated.

Gyulasun shows a very interesting video (the last one) showing a gradient ramp using a nail attached to a bearing. Nails can be easily polarized with another magnet so an interesting test would be to see a diametric magnet can be used for switching the polarization of the nail as it approaches the end. Tweaking of the inner magnet may be needed to see if it can switch.

Attached is a picture to clarify the idea.

I did a rough print to test resistance of plastic ring on magnet and there is a lot of friction but the polarity does change through each nail. I did get to test a metal bearing (using cylinders) and it moved much smoother while changing the field on the surface. It might be better to find a diametric magnet that has the same diameter as the bearing bore and test that.

[gyulasun]

Hi DreamThinkBuild,

I think you have a good idea for changing the magnetic poles for the nails, thanks for showing it. My only notice is that there may be issues at the last magnet stacks of the ramp where (i.e. in the sticky point) the attract force is the strongest towards the nail so that the magnetizing force from the diametrical magnet may not be enough to weaken enough or even change the polarization at the tip of the nail so tweaking is still needed in the assembled setup.
Here I mainly mean that the strong (say) S pole induced at the tip end of the nail by the (say) N pole of the last ramp magnet stack would need a rather strong N pole source i.e. an equally strong diametric magnet to override the flux in the nail from the stacked magnets. I think you understand this? Otherwise there may remain a sticky point and a continuous rotation of the rotor may just fail. I believe that the Werjefelt compensation method I referred to in the previous page would also help defeat or greatly reduce the sticky point, maybe together with the use of the diametically magnetized magnet switch.

To SkyWatcher:  I hope you did not get lost in the attraction of the magnetic forces     and have some progress in the stepped gradient motor setup.  If you have found that the geometry you started out with originally proves to be unfavorable then do not hesitate to change it. Of course I know the change needs even more devotion than what you have started out with. 
I understand your newer setup, the flux diverting transformer, shown in your latest post above.  I think that the output power can only be small because the output core does not have a closed magnetic path.  However, the moment you would try to make a closed path there, then Lenz would invariably come into play I think.  You could increase output of course if you were to chain a few stages (like you show in the drawing) in line with each other (in this case the input toroidal coils would be seriesly connected of course).

Greetings
Gyula

[mscoffman]

If you can reliably switch the polarity of the nail you really need only one magnet in the whole field. If you can get it to switch fast
enough it would work in the same as a EMF driven motor. I like the concept of using HHO to create a fast powerful energy pulse
to flip the rotor magnet around at magnetic speeds. The HHO would be generated during the whole rest of the rev.


:S:MarkSCoffman 

[Low-Q]

Hi SkyWatcher123,

In most of the cases in such setups,  (you surely know this),  the problem is that the increasing torque force of the rotor (gained during its travel through the gradual stator magnet steps) is still not high enough to go through the last step where the strongest attraction force exists between the rotor and stator magnets (sticky point).

While it is okay that you want to help the rotor go through the sticky point by using an electromagnet, in most of the cases it is a question whether the setup can be looped back (by utilizing the motor torque to drive a generator for instance). While you have not mentioned whether your aim is a self-runner,  it seems that an efficient motor could be built from such setups.

What I do believe a possible remedy to reduce the unwanted force at the sticky point is to apply a counter force onto the shaft by a separate rotor-stator magnet pair which should be positioned to interact with each other when the rotor blocking force at the sticky point is at a maximum. If your sticky point is an attract force, then your magnet pair should give a repel force, of course. I refer to this drawing I showed to a member to indicate this compensation method here:
http://www.overunity.com/13540/magnet-question/msg362716/#msg362716  The magnet pair (two simple rod or block magnets, one of them is fixed on the shaft, the other is fixed as a single stator magnet) should have no any magnetic flux connection with the stepped gradient magnets or with the 2 rotor magnets. Say your sticky point is at the 3 o'clock position, then the compensating magnet pair should meet in repel also at the 3 o'clock position, their facing distance should be adjusted to control the amount of the repel force between them just to compensate the attract force at the sticky point. 
I took the force "compensation" method from Bertil Werjefelt, he had showed such in one of his patent applications in 1994, Magnetic battery. ( http://www.rexresearch.com/werjefelt/werjefelt.htm )

With your setup, there can be other issues (beside the sticky point), I will return to discuss them later  (position of the electromagnet and the unwanted induction in its coil by the rotor magnets).

Nice build, just carry on.

Gyula

If you put a second magnet that will counterforce the sticky spot, the rotor will also get less torque build up due to the weakened sticky spot. The sticky spot (The most attractive point) is the very reason why the rotor want to approach it. This spot is equally attracting the rotor from both sides, so there is no way that you can make a rotor selfrun - not even with the second repelling magnet included.
If you use a coil to help the rotor to continue, that energy input is what you can get out from the rotor. In short: You only need this coil, and no stator magnets. Then you're back to the traditional electric motor principle.
It's only one way to succsessfully build a working magnet motor - that would be the one that is impossible to build ;-)

[gyulasun]

Hi Vidar,

I agree with you on this, quote: "If you put a second magnet that will counterforce the sticky spot, the rotor will also get less torque build up due to the weakened sticky spot. The sticky spot (The most attractive point) is the very reason why the rotor want to approach it. This spot is equally attracting the rotor from both sides" unquote.

The rotor in such stepped gradient magnet setups will arrive at the strongest sticky spot with a certain rotational speed (with a certain amount of torque) gained en route to that spot, you may agree with this, it is not the last magnet (where the sticky spot is) which gives the full torque for the rotor.  Sure the rotor will loose the last and strongest attraction when I compensate that last attract force with an equal repel force but there should remain some torque from the earlier magnets' attraction,  no?

I also agree that using a coil to help the rotor to move through the last (i.e. the strongest) magnet, I can only receive a bit less useful output from my coil input (if I compare the two)  but in case the rotor already arrives into the sticky spot with a certain torque (kinetic energy) gained by normal attractions up to the last and strongest magnet (from the magnets preceeding the last magnet), then do not we have a chance to come out with a certain gain, whatever small the gain is?

Gyula