The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[MileHigh]

This assumption comes from misunderstanding on how quickly coil reacts to magnetic impulse given. Obviously the longer wire the bigger inductance is and due that fact the slower coil response is. We are talking about range from microseconds to milliseconds and when proper conditions are met with magnet passing by the coil quicker than it can react with current the speedup under load/short circuit effect manifests.

The coil will not respond more slowly to the changing magnetic flux from a passing magnet if it is a larger coil with a larger inductance.   There are two separate and distinct effects and I believe that you are mixing the two effects together when in fact this does not happen.

1)  Response from a coil for a passing rotor magnet:   In this case the magnet is the source of the flux and the coil will respond to the changing flux by generating a voltage across its two terminals.  If the coil is a large inductance coil or a small inductance coil, the response will be approximately the same in terms of the timing, there is no delay in both cases.  This is a case where the coil is generating a response to an external source of magnetic flux.  The stimulus is external changing flux and the response is voltage across the coil terminals.

2) Response to voltage excitation across the two terminals of the coil:  In this case the larger inductance coil will respond more slowly than the small inductance coil.  So there is a timing difference in this case.  This is a case where the coil is generating a response to an external voltage source.  The stimulus is a voltage applied across the two terminals of the coil and the response is current flow through the coil/generation of flux by the coil itself.

Just the problem root cause is not how we can circumvent Lenz force itself. Usually in generators you get at least three phase system which contains sets of coils around of ring. If they are all arranged to get magnetic field change at the same time the drag will be biggest (this is what is in conventional generator design). But if you arrange them to get magnetic flux change in series the entire picture changes with resulting lowest drag with price of lowest power output. In that case it is becoming obvious how the drag can be manipulated. To dig in even further the problem source is single static magnetic pole passing by coil which creates alternating magnet by induction. So you have repulsion when it approaches coil which is against movement and attraction when magnet leaves coil which is against movement again. For a child who knows nothing about physics the logical question would occur - what will happen if we can change magnet polarity as it moves and have its one polarity when magnet is approaching coil then start flipping polarity when magnet starts leaving coil? The answer will be quite simple: in that scenario you have repulsion when magnet approaches coil with force opposing movement and will have repulsion with force helping movement when it leaves coil due fact the opposite magnetic field increase on leaving moment. And here most important part occurs: since you can have this arrangement when there are multiple coils getting polarity change in series to each other the one of things can happen: when magnet is approaching one coil and other magnet is leaving another coil at the same time the summary net kinetic force of repulsion around a ring becomes zero. So here is one of solutions how to solve drag issue caused by Lenz force...

No matter what the configuration of the generator, the more electrical power it outputs into a load, the more mechanical power that you must supply to the generator.  There will not be any "net force helping movement."   This type of discussion is too difficult to discuss in text only.  This is a case where you need to make measurements with your scope and construct timing diagrams so that you can analyse what the generator is doing step by step.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Delayed Lenz is a good analogy , You can't eliminate it but redirect it. Use it to spike another coil ,collect the output and put it back in.
When you feed power to a coil it creates the magnetic field. If I pass a magnet past a coil it creates a magnetic field .
What happens when you pass a magnet past a coil at the same time you pulse it?
artv

Delayed Lenz is a false analogy.  You raise some interesting points, but here is another case where you have to have a schematic diagram and a set of timing diagrams referencing the schematic to really discuss what may be going on.  "Use it to spike another coil ,collect the output and put it back in." - it's too easy to just say that stuff and not back it up.  The only real and true way to do it is with a schematic and timing diagrams.  You could also build a circuit and confirm that it really does what you claim.  That's where it starts to get difficult for a lot of people - to make the transition from just describing how you think something might work, to actually doing the circuit, making a good schematic and set of timing diagrams, and then verifying that your timing diagrams are correct by checking with your scope.

MileHigh

[T-1000]

MileHigh,

Had to dig something up from history - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-0CvWYT8w Just listen on rotor speed change when generator coil is under different load and unloaded (or attach soundscope). There are quite many of videos like that. Sorry, the reality is different than you have in theory for a coil reaction timing. The coil natural resonance is at the play with it.
Also for different generator design seems you completely missed a point where moving static magnet becomes alternating magnet. The result will be not same "more physical force in for getting more power out". If you are still very skeptic by doing experiment this can be revealed on your table.

Cheers!

[shylo]

Hi Milehigh, Very interesting what are those quotes from?
As a magnet enters the coil , the flow continues to rise, then drops, fields change? Right?
Just need to switch at the right time?
I don't think passing steel between the magnets is all there is , more to it than that.
artv

[MileHigh]

T-1000:

I watched the clip and I heard the speed-up and saw the current consumption drop for the two different loads.   In this case we go from an open-circut generator coil to a loaded generator coil.  So this is a different case from my original discussion where I compared a short-circuited generator coil to a loaded generator coil.  In this case we are still not dealing with any "delayed Lenz effect" or coil resonance.

This clip is a great example, and I have seen many myself in the past.  The reason there is no delayed Lenz effect is that the timing of the current flow through the generator coil will not show any delay.  Nor will the magnetic repulsion show any delay.  Also, the natural resonant frequency of the generator coil like you see in the clip will be very high, much higher than the frequency it is running at in the clip.  More importantly, who says "natural resonance" has to increase the RPM of the rotor?  That is a misleading assumption, just like assuming "delayed Lenz effect" is a misleading assumption.

So, we know that when the coil is not driving a load, there is no useful output.   That means all of the input power is becoming waste heat.   Yes, the rotor is spinning, but that is not a useful output.  The spinning rotor just heats the air and that produces waste heat.

When the coil is driving the LED board or the incandescent light bulb, then you have a useful output, and you still have a lot of waste heat.

So why does the rotor speed up if it has nothing to do with a delayed Lenz effect?  To find the answer you would have to make very careful and precise measurements.  It would be a challenge to do that for sure, but it would be rewarding to find out the solution to the problem.  I cannot tell you the exact reason why, but I do have a general idea why.

Here is an example of what is happening from a "top view" just as an example, it is not necessarily correct.

1)  When the generator coil is not driving a load:

<Voltage source> -> <AC power flow 'X1' watts> -> [<'Y1' Power to spin the rotor (= waste heat)> + <'Z1'' Power lost to cogging (= waste heat)>]

2) When the generator coil is driving a load:

<Voltage source> -> <AC power flow 'X2' watts> -> [<'Y2' Power to spin the rotor (= waste heat)> + <'Z2'' Power lost to cogging (= waste heat)> + <'L2' power going to load>]

In the clip you can see the current draw drops under load.   So that means that X2 is less than X1.  It's doesn't really matter.  The only thing that matters is that Y2 is greater than Y1.  It has absolutely nothing to do with a "delayed Lenz effect."

How do you make the measurements above?   The answer is with great difficulty.   It would be a real challenge.  I am pretty sure that the power lost to cogging goes down when the pick-up coil is driving a load.  Meauring Y2 and Y1 would not be easy, you note that the RPM of rotor by ear only changes perhaps 1% or 2%.

What would be easy, would be to confirm that there is no delayed Lenz effect.  If you have a scope you can look at the current flowing through the pick up coil and the position of the rotor magnet as it passes the pick-up coil.  You will quickly see that there is no "delayed Lenz effect."

MileHigh