The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

Luc:

It's a very nice build, but you are dealing with essentially the same issues as were seen in your generator clip using the Dremel.

The efficiency of the drill press is unknown.  So you have about 150 watts of power consumption and about 5 watts going into the load resistor.  It's simply too difficult to know how many mechanical watts are going into the rotor because that is "buried" in the unknown efficiency of the drill press setup.  One thing that we do know is that the faster electrical motors run, the better they tend to perform.  That likely explains your observations when the drill press runs at a higher RPM.

When you disconnect the load resistor the power draw of the drill press goes up.  When current is flowing through the generator coil, that reduces the cogging.  We see from the beginning of your clip that the cogging is very strong.  When you disconnect the load resistor you actually hear the cogging kick in.  That's the main reason the power draw increases, because of the nasty cogging acting like a disturbance torque on the motor.

Note that you have two conflicting trends.  When you add a load resistor in theory the power draw from the prime mover increases.  In reality that does happen.  But at the same time, adding a load resistor results in current flow, and that reduces the cogging resulting in a decrease in power draw from the motor.  Even though in theory the cogging is energy-neutral, in practice you can literally hear the increased stress on the system when the cogging is happening.  These two conflicting trends make it nearly impossible for you to get the real data that you are looking for.

So, you can make measurements, but between the unknown and variable efficiency of the drill press setup, and the conflicting trends of adding a load resistor and at the same time time decreasing the cogging, it will make it essentially impossible to extract any useful data.

Note that Thane Heinz's experiments suffer from a similar problem.  The power inefficiency of his transformer setups is ignored and he just focuses on his differential power measurements.  He ignores the power inefficiency that does nothing more than produce a lot of waste heat.  His differential "efficiency improvements" are buried by all the inefficient waste heat being produced.  The waste heat is always larger than his actual power measurements.

So what is the solution?   I certainly don't know the best solution but I do know a tried and proven solution.  It's the same old thing:  If you had a big flywheel on a very good bearing, and you knew the moment of inertia of the flywheel, then you could use that as your power source.  Doing this completely eliminates the unknown efficiency of the drill press setup.  When the flywheel drives the rotor you can make a precise measurement of its deceleration.  Then you crunch the numbers and calculate the mechanical power being output by the flywheel for various test setups.  If the flywheel is large enough, then you will not have to worry about the cogging at all.  The energy-neutral cogging will not affect the flywheel like it affects the motor.

Perhaps somebody has a better idea, but the only way I can envision extracting real data from your tests is to do flywheel spin-downs.

MileHigh

Excellent posts MileHigh!

I appreciate your effort and honest opinion. I'm sure if we all work together in a supportive way to better understand how to best test and deal with this kind of effect we will get there.

You mentioned flywheel, how about I add a flywheel above the C core?... would that not smooth the cogging so we would get more stable power readings?

To everyone else, please share your thoughts on a way to obtain reliable power measurements of such a setup.

Regards

Luc

[tinman]

Excellent posts MileHigh!

I appreciate your effort and honest opinion. I'm sure if we all work together in a supportive way to better understand how to best test and deal with this kind of effect we will get there.

You mentioned flywheel, how about I add a flywheel above the C core?... would that not smooth the cogging so we would get more stable power readings?

To everyone else, please share your thoughts on a way to obtain reliable power measurements of such a setup.

Regards

Luc

Yes,as MH said,a large flywheel to store the energy would be the way to go-it's just like haveing a large cap across a pulsed DC output to smooth out the pulses,and get a stedy flow of current.

[tinman]

Here are two test i did with this flux gate generator setup using 2 ring magnets...

Here is one test setup with 1 small coil...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1FavPfg_Tc&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw

And here's another test i did with a longer coil...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_rP9Pf2IeU&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=2

The reason i'm placing the coils on the edge is that there is the spot for the most output...

Man,that rotor anf flywheel are that well machined i can hardly seem them spinning lol. I see the woodwork is stil up to scratch TJ

Im looking a lot deeper into this delayed magnetic field effect,and as you will see in my next video,i have an induced magnetic field that comes from !i dont know where! lol.-Advanced and delayed magnetic fields will be my new topic-watch for it.

[centraflow]

Quote:- MH


Note that you have two conflicting trends.  When you add a load resistor in theory the power draw from the prime mover increases.  In reality that does happen.  But at the same time, adding a load resistor results in current flow, and that reduces the cogging resulting in a decrease in power draw from the motor.  Even though in theory the cogging is energy-neutral, in practice you can literally hear the increased stress on the system when the cogging is happening.  These two conflicting trends make it nearly impossible for you to get the real data that you are looking for.[/size]

[/size]
Unquote


Now I like to see the trees without the forest, just makes things simpler


I think the whole point is, Why does the cogging stop under load? and not when unloaded?


MH please explain that without covering those trees with a forest   or anyone else


thanks in advance


regards


Mike

[Grumage]

Luc:


The efficiency of the drill press is unknown.  So you have about 150 watts of power consumption and about 5 watts going into the load resistor.  It's simply too difficult to know how many mechanical watts are going into the rotor because that is "buried" in the unknown efficiency of the drill press setup.  One thing that we do know is that the faster electrical motors run, the better they tend to perform.  That likely explains your observations when the drill press runs at a higher RPM.


MileHigh

Dear MileHigh.

With respect, your statement above is incorrect.

On all but the most sophisticated Drill presses the drive motor's shaft speed remains near constant. Spindle speed change is effected by changing the drive belt ratios under the top cover.

Cheers Grum.

PS. There are also three rather nifty flywheels already built in !!  In the form of the Cast Iron multi stage pulleys.