What's wrong with this

[tinman]

The difference with Tinman is that AFAICT he is honestly trying to approach the situation objectively. 

Another thought occurred to me:  Get a second scale, and place the tower on a stiff platform of plastic or wood that spans the two identical scales.  Take the sum of the readings from the two scales.  Then repeat the experiment with the platform rotated 90 degrees relative to the scales.  This will show any shift in CoG along one axis in each experiment.  It should also allow one to null out any shift in CoG in one axis during each experiment by using the sum of the readings from both scales.

The thought im haveing is to get away from the same old same old. What i mean by this is,insted of you top guns telling us wee little people what we should be doing as far as testing go's,would be to get off ya a-s and do them your self . What i and many others have found over time is that it dosnt matter what test we do,until our test show a result you top guns like to see,and meets your expected outcome,you just insist that we do more and more test. Saying things like the scales might read wrong if there is some sort of imballance of the device on the scale,is like saying a glass of water will weigh more on the left side of the scales than it dose on the right side of the scale-which it dosnt with these scales.

So like i said before,i have no intention of going backwards and carrying out test i have already done-like the buoyancy test. There is also the fact that there are eyes here that take other peoples ideas and run off with them ,hoping to make a quick buck. Some years back i did a very controlled test on a simple ssg pulse motor clearly showing that alternating magnets(N/S/N/S) were the most efficient way to go(video on my youtube account with time and date). So about a month later Arron the rookie and Peter blo-dy Lindermann come out with a new and far more efficient ssg setup that uses alternating magnets(N/S/N/S) on the rotor-->whats the chances of that after them saying for years that it must be all north fields out There was also another design i came up with that used a water battery,and a way to reverse the electroplating effect with the copper and zink plates-and guess what,that was taken and used by some one else,and it is actually making them money. Chet knows about this one,but i wont take it any further because i still like the guy that is useing the effect to run his product.

For these reasons along with mechanical failure,i didnt release my video of the generator running on 70% water on the 1/1/15 like i was going to.

But i leave you with 2 questions Mark-what weighs more,a vessel with a vacuum of say negative 5psi,or the same vessel with 1atm of HHO gas inside it?2- How and what happens to HHO when it itself is under vacuum in that vessel-would the vessel be heaver or lighter when the HHO gas was at 1atm?. These are all test i have done,and will be doing again because it is called for at this time in a different place-a place where there is no one to run off with your work.

[Floor]

@Tinman

I believe I owe you a debt on several accounts.  Additionally, I hope that you will accept this apology
for my poor behavior during some particular exchanges between us.  I was assuming, condescending, and insinuating etc. .  This was due only to my own perceptual experience, not your fault.  Sorry.

You have my respect.

My gratitude to you also for remaining on topic here.   


I don't know the following to be true with absolute certainty,  but I think

1. you may have been goaded into making your presentation prematurely,
                and
2. you may have been goaded into making your presentation out of the context that is your actual intention as well.

If so,  would you say something about it, in a reply and  from your perspective. ?

From where I'm standing it looks like my little topic here has been raided, and that you are being
artfully harassed.


          floor

[MarkE]

OK so so far we have an experiment where:

4) Statements that in prior runs if the heat is removed that the indicated weight returns to its original value  (I am not sure how that was obtained as the scale shuts off.)

I too like the experiment and the effort applied to obtain objective results.  I take it that the block of wood is intended to keep the weigh pan from heating up.

4)-I find it hard to believe that a man of your tallent and knowledge wouldnt know how something as simple as this could be done. When the scales switch off and then turned back on,they zero back out with the vessel still on them. When the vessel is removed the scales read a negative value that is equal to the weight value of the vessel. 2nd method-the vessel is removed from the scales,and then after cooling off,is placed back onto the scales to read a value that is the same as the test starting point value.

There are lots of things that I can guess.  It is far better for you to state your procedure and avoid assumptions.

There is 3 pieces of timber glued under the vessel acting as feet, as there is two S/S bolts protruding out of the bottom cap of the vessel which are the conections to the cell inside the vessel.

If you obtain a second scale and perform the tests that I suggested we will get closer to resolving what is behind your present observations.

[MarkE]

The thought im haveing is to get away from the same old same old. What i mean by this is,insted of you top guns telling us wee little people what we should be doing as far as testing go's,would be to get off ya a-s and do them your self . What i and many others have found over time is that it dosnt matter what test we do,until our test show a result you top guns like to see,and meets your expected outcome,you just insist that we do more and more test. Saying things like the scales might read wrong if there is some sort of imballance of the device on the scale,is like saying a glass of water will weigh more on the left side of the scales than it dose on the right side of the scale-which it dosnt with these scales.

Do you know that for a fact?  Have you taken a 2 - 3 kg weight and weighed it in different positions on the scale?

So like i said before,i have no intention of going backwards and carrying out test i have already done-like the buoyancy test. There is also the fact that there are eyes here that take other peoples ideas and run off with them ,hoping to make a quick buck. Some years back i did a very controlled test on a simple ssg pulse motor clearly showing that alternating magnets(N/S/N/S) were the most efficient way to go(video on my youtube account with time and date). So about a month later Arron the rookie and Peter blo-dy Lindermann come out with a new and far more efficient ssg setup that uses alternating magnets(N/S/N/S) on the rotor-->whats the chances of that after them saying for years that it must be all north fields out There was also another design i came up with that used a water battery,and a way to reverse the electroplating effect with the copper and zink plates-and guess what,that was taken and used by some one else,and it is actually making them money. Chet knows about this one,but i wont take it any further because i still like the guy that is useing the effect to run his product.

For these reasons along with mechanical failure,i didnt release my video of the generator running on 70% water on the 1/1/15 like i was going to.

But i leave you with 2 questions Mark-what weighs more,a vessel with a vacuum of say negative 5psi,or the same vessel with 1atm of HHO gas inside it?2- How and what happens to HHO when it itself is under vacuum in that vessel-would the vessel be heaver or lighter when the HHO gas was at 1atm?. These are all test i have done,and will be doing again because it is called for at this time in a different place-a place where there is no one to run off with your work.

The weight of an object at some height here on earth tracks the mass of the object and the atmospheric pressure.  For reasonably dense objects, the atmospheric pressure will have such a small effect that it will be below our measurement uncertainty.  For low density things like inflated balloons the atmospheric pressure will make a big percentage difference in the weight.  The mass is a function of the total number of moles of each material that composes the object.  It is independent of the state:  solid, liquid, gas, or plasma of the materials that compose the object.   None of that takes away from your thoughtfully constructed experiment.

There are opportunists out there, and Aaron seems to be one of them.  If you want to discuss things privately with me so that ideas you think are valuable stay away from prying eyes, that is fine with me.

PV = nRT, or P = nRT/V.  The pressure inside a given vessel that contains only gas depends on how many moles of gas are inside and at what temperature and the vessel's interior volume.  HHO (H₂ and O₂) is roughly 34g/2 moles ~= 17g/mole.  Dry air is denser at ~29g/mole.  So there is considerably less mass at any pressure in a gas mixture of "HHO" than there is dry air.  A volume of air at: 9.7psia * ~29g/mole is about 12% more dense than  the same volume of HHO at: 14.7psia * ~17g/mole.  In order to reduce the pressure inside a vessel you either have to: cool it down, make it bigger, or remove material.  For a vessel that has a constant interior volume and that is held at a constant temperature, the only variable left is the amount of material inside the volume.  When you remove material you reduce the mass inside the vessel.

[Floor]

@Tinman

I believe I owe you a debt on several accounts.  Additionally, I hope that you will accept this apology
for my poor behavior during some particular exchanges between us.  I was assuming, condescending, and insinuating etc. .  This was due only to my own perceptual experience, not your fault.  Sorry.

You have my respect.

My gratitude to you also for remaining on topic here.   


I don't know the following to be true with absolute certainty,  but I think

1. you may have been goaded into making your presentation prematurely,
                and
2. you may have been goaded into making your presentation out of the context that is your actual intention as well.

If so,  would you say something about it, in a reply and  from your perspective. ?

From where I'm standing it looks like my little topic here has been raided, and that you are being
artfully harassed.

                 Additionally, I would  like to acknowledge that this might not be the case. 
It may be that it's just a bunch of people hav'nt realized that they might not be having a
good effect on the forum ?


          floor