Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[Void]

In the mean time, the pros and people of good will could look at my intended test circuit with the 12 W mono audio amplifier (see attached diagram)

Hi conradelektro. I mentioned this previously, but just in case you didn't see it, if you ground one side
of the output secondary windings, whether they are configured as opposing or assisting, it can unbalance the
output coils and the results can be quite different than if you don't unbalance them.  For the bucking coil configuration, if the
terminals are not grounded, then the voltage difference across the output coil terminals with no ground (and no scope probe
with its ground clip) may well be close to 0 volts. As soon as you ground one terminal or connect in a scope probe, then you may
get a voltage difference across the terminals. Was the OP recommending that one side of the output coils be grounded?
All the best...

[conradelektro]

Hi conradelektro. I mentioned this previously, but just in case you didn't see it, if you ground one side
of the output secondary windings, whether they are configured as opposing or assisting, it can unbalance the
output coils and the results can be quite different than if you don't unbalance them.  If the terminals are not grounded,
then the voltage difference across the output coil terminals with no ground (and no scope probe with its ground clip)
may well be close to 0 volts. As soon as you ground one terminal or connect in a scope probe, then you may get a voltage
difference across the terminals. Was the OP recommending that one side of the output coils be grounded?
All the best...

@Void: you make a good point, this causes me some thinking.

As far as I understand:

- If I use the scope I have to do proper grounding in order to avoid "capacitive coupling" over a long wire. Therefore I will ground one leg of the output coil (it should not matter which one).

- Might be better to use a hand held multimeter on the output and no grounding (no scope on the output). But the multimeter might only show proper true RMS for low frequencies (50 Hz to 100 Hz). I will try that.

- I could rectify the output with a full bridge rectifier and a big electrolytic capacitor, then I can measure DC over the load resistor. But there will be losses in the rectifier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Rectifier_losses


Any way, your comment shows that measuring is not that straight forward as one would think. The "ground problem" is not trivial and I will keep that in mind. It is planned to do different measurements which should complement each other.

We also have to keep in mind, that there is no "negative proof". One can not proof that some idea does NOT work, it is only possible to show that it INDEED works.

The "inventor" can always say that I did something wrong. But then he should correct my error in an understandable and precise way and not by posing riddles or allegory.

But let's see the whole thing (and for sure my testing) as a hobby. I have no stake in it, I am just mildly interested in "strange things". And after some weeks I will get bored by the "particular strangeness" and will look for something else. If you look at my postings over the years (you could go through the attachments), you will see that I wander from "strangeness" to "strangeness" and each "strangeness" becomes boring after a while, because I either can not really replicate it or because my replication did nothing strange. I did a lot of pulse motors and Joule Thief type contraptions because a "turning motor" or "some light" appeals to my childish and playful mind.

Greetings, Conrad

[Void]

As far as I understand:
- If I use the scope I have to do proper grounding in order to avoid "capacitive coupling" over a long wire. Therefore I will ground one leg of the output coil (it should not matter which one).
- Might be better to use a hand held multimeter on the output and no grounding (no scope on the output). But the multimeter might only show proper true RMS for low frequencies (50 Hz to 100 Hz). I will try that.
- I could rectify the output with a full bridge rectifier and a big electrolytic capacitor, then I can measure DC over the load resistor. But there will be losses in the rectifier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier#Rectifier_losses

Hi conradelektro. One way to work around this potential problem when using a scope probe with two
bucking coils, is since you have two output coils connected together at the center, you can place the scope probe
ground clip at the center connection between the two coils, and then measure the voltage at each
of the other two coil terminals separately. You would then take the difference between these two
measurements as the output voltage. Since both coil output terminals are balanced with respect to the ground clip
in this configuration, then the voltage reading should more accurately reflect the true voltage across the terminals.
Connecting the ground clip to the center (common) terminal could still potentially alter circuit behavior somewhat,
but the overall impact should be less. If you use a carbon resistor as a load, you can then use this
output voltage to calculate the output power (if the output waveforms are a good clean sine wave).
Vrms^2/load resistance
Not ideal, but it should be close if the output waveform on each output coil is a nice sine wave.

You are right that most multimeters are not spec'd to read voltage and currents much
above 100 Hz or so, but it depends on which model of multimeter you have. Some multimeters
are spec'd to read voltages and currents up to 100kHz or even higher. You have to check the manual.
Some lower end multimeters do not even mention such things in their manual, if they even come with
a manual. You would need a true RMS multimeter as well.

Yes, rectifier diodes do have a forward voltage drop across them, so they do consume some power.

All the best...

[conradelektro]

Hi conradelektro. One way to work around this potential problem when using a scope probe with two
bucking coils, is since you have two output coils connected together at the center, you can place the scope probe
ground clip at the center connection between the two coils, and then measure the voltage at each
of the other two coil terminals separately. You would then take the difference between these two
measurements as the output voltage. Since both coil output terminals are balanced with respect to the ground clip
in this configuration, then the voltage reading should more accurately reflect the true voltage across the terminals.
Connecting the ground clip to the center (common) terminal could still potentially alter circuit behavior somewhat,
but the overall impact should be less. If you use a carbon resistor as a load, you can then use this
output voltage to calculate the output power (if the output waveforms are a good clean sine wave).
Vrms^2/load resistance
Not ideal, but it should be close if the output waveform on each output coil is a nice sine wave.

All the best...

I in fact did that measurement, please see the attached drawing. The wave forms were pretty good sin waves, but I do not recall all details. I remember a 180° phase shift in one case.

I have to redo this with the audio amp.

I have the feeling that my function generator does not do too well as a "coil driver", some inexplicable things happen, therefore I want to go on to more input power from the audio amp. The inexplicable things are most likely my lack of knowledge, but I do want to move on now. Once I know more, I might go back to low power again, but with a transistor between FN and primary (and coil drive power from my laboratory power supply).

Greetings, Conrad

[John.K1]

I have some questions myself.
..
3) How many different ways are there to connect three components? Because it now seems that EMJ is going right through the list: try this, try that, try the other.

Well, Maybe it is not just a three components. May be it is many parameters around of this three components. From your experience make a list of what can make a difference in the circuit and you will may be end-up with full page   Just imagine how tricky this thing can be.  A bit more of juice and you get completely different behavior, like I did just an hour ago. On scope almost straight line on the output, little bit more volts in and bang, my PS has still  pain in an ass from that shock All I want to say- Do not expect  linear output behavior. But I also do not say some effect comes only from the partnered coils.
As somebody mentioned here before- "people fails because they do not know how close they were".