Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

Let me see if I have this correct.  At lower frequencies, the outer and inner secondaries are in phase with each other but are 180 out of phase with the primary?  Are all three windings wound in the same direction/dot convention?  I would think that the primary and both secondaries, if all wound the same, would be in phase at lower frequencies.

The inner sec. phase shift at HF seems reasonable. 
So, at lower frequencies, the inner secondary amplitude is twice that of the outer secondary and both secondaries are in phase with each other, correct?

Yes, that was the problem.  So in all instances, your use of "SG" has been with regard to your FG?.
You need to go as high as is required to see any peak or roll off in the outer secondary.  You seem to have defined the unloaded peak and rolloff for the inner secondary, you should be able to do the same for the outer secondary.

What did you see regarding the outer secondary amplitude and phase when you swept up to 2.3MHz?

My estimates were based on your scope shots with the secondaries loaded with 100R.  At some point you'll want to see what difference the 100R loads make to the peak/rolloff frequency.



I was only trying to be helpful.  Glad to see you've figured it out...

PW

Yes, and I greatly appreciate your help PW.
I am also happy to carry out any test you would like done.
I will shoot that video tonight for you.

Brad

[tinman]

Brad:

Sorry, but the above paragraph contains some strange and questionable statements that put me off.  For example, the magnetic field and the magnetic flux are essentially the same thing, therefore by definition they propagate throughout the core simultaneously.  The "reluctance value" is not the rate at which the magnetic domains can switch/align.  Reluctance has to do with looking at a magnetic circuit and identifying areas of high and low permeability to determine where and how much magnetic flux will flow through the entire magnetic circuit.  Like I just posted, the speed (time delay) for magnetic domains switching has nothing to do with any kind of "speed of propagation" of the magnetic field.  You cannot confuse inductance and it's associated time delays for the current to ramp up due to electrical inertia with the the speed-of-light or near speed-of-light (i.e. instantaneous) measurement of the strength and direction of the magnetic field anywhere in space due to the instantaneous current flow (and associated instantaneous core saturation level).

There are several times where there is missing or confusing information and confusing statements in your reporting of the frequency sweep measurements you made for PW.  PW is valiantly trying to clarify what you said.

MileHigh

I see the magnetic field and magnetic flux as two different things.
I will explain later, as doing it by phone sucks.

[MileHigh]

I see the magnetic field and magnetic flux as two different things.
I will explain later, as doing it by phone sucks.

You can't redefine terms and concepts to suit your fancy.

Magnetic flux (most often denoted as Φ_m), is the number of magnetic field lines (also called "magnetic flux density") passing through a closed surface (such as a conducting coil). The SI unit of magnetic flux is the weber (Wb) (in derived units: volt-seconds). The CGS unit is the maxwell.

We don't speak on the phone and you didn't comment on my response to your question about driving the inner secondary.

[Smudge]

Some great info there Smudge.
Now when the reluctance is reduced,the magnetic domains of said core material would align much quicker-would they not. What i mean is that less magnetic field strength would be needed to align the domains,so as an area of the core that has low reluctance would see an increased magnetic flux due to the quicker domain alignment to that of the area of the core that has a higher reluctance that has an equal magnetic field strength.
Summery--Even though the magnetic field throughout the core may be of the same amplitude,the area of the core with a lower reluctance value would have the highest value of magnetic flux. If that area of low reluctance is a path that follows the inner coil winding's,then that inner coil will have a higher flux density,and thus result in a higher voltage amplitude across the coil within this flux path to that of a coil with the same turn ratio that is in the area of the core with a higher reluctance value.

You haven't quite grasped the situation.  The reluctance of the core material doesn't change.  What happens is that another induced impedance gets put in series with that reluctance.  That impedance acts a bit like a magnetic inductor, but whereas an inductor responds to the first differential of current (in this case flux) through it, this impedance reacts to the second differential.  For sine waves the impedance becomes a negative value of reluctance.  That helps us solve the magnetic circuit.  But you should be aware that the induced negative reluctance supplying an mmf that aids the flux flow is actually current in the coil, that current  coming from the capacitor across the coil.  In the electrical world we have secondary current flowing both through the load and through the shunt capacitance, the latter being phase shifted compared to the former.  It is that phase shifted capacitor current that appears as an mmf in the magnetic circuit in such a way that it appears to come from a negative value of reluctance.

You don't need to solve the magnetic circuit to realize that the inner secondary, being shunted by an internal capacitance, forms a resonant circuit with some Q value and that this Q has the ability to multiply the secondary voltage above what it would be if the capacitor were not there.  At the frequency chosen by Tinman where the secondary voltage is twice the primary, we could say that whereas it should be (say) half the primary by normal flux apportionment the effective Q is 4, thus multiplying the voltage by 4.

Smudge

[tinman]

Well it couldnt be any more wrong than the description you just gave,whether that description is by so called experts or your self.
Quote: Magnetic flux (most often denoted as Φm), is the number of magnetic field lines (also called "magnetic flux density")

What field line's. How can something be described using things that dont exist?. There are no field lines,or lines of magnetic flux--so the description you just put forth is nothing but rubbished based around the non existent. One day you dismiss these magnetic field lines,and the next you want to use them to describe magnetic flux .

You can't redefine terms and concepts to suit your fancy.

Really
Should we stick with the garbage description you just gave based around something that dose not exist?. Do you ever stop and think why all these ! so called ! expert's still have no idea what the magnetic force is?. You do know how science work's-dont you?. Some wonder wizard (scientist/physicist) says-yea,thats it,and all the other sheep follow suit,and were stuck with crap like that to try and work things out properly.

How about this.
The magnetic field is that which exist around the source,be it produced by an electromagnet,or a PM. Magnetic flux is that that exist through a body of magnetically active material once all the magnetic domains are in line. So if we take a PM,and bring that PM close to say a piece of iron,the magnetic domains within that iron start to align-->you now have a magnetic flux within that piece of iron,and a magnetic field around it. But if we bring that PM close to say a piece of glass,we will have no magnetic flux within that glass,as the magnetic domains simply will not align within the material-->or there just isnt any magnetic domains to align within that material,and so it is non magnetic-->but the magnetic field still exist around that glass,and that is the field from the PM.

Sure sounds better than an explanation based around field lines that done exist.

We don't speak on the phone and you didn't comment on my response to your question about driving the inner secondary.

Who said we spoke on the phone?.
I will go back a see if i can find what your response was,and get back to you.