Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[gyulasun]

Hi Partzman,

Thanks for all the details and the photo on the coil for T1.

Let me notice that the COP of 10.5 you got from the scope shots is in fact less than that if we consider the power consumption of the driver IC (MAX4429) at 420 kHz from a 15 V DC supply. I figure this consumption to be 400-500 mW or so (worst case) from the data sheet. This means the COP reduces to 2.5 - 3 but this is still very good of course. And to get rid of the function generator, a one or two transistor low power (a few mW) 420 kHz oscillator could easily drive the input of the MAX4429. Also, I am sure there should be improvement possibilities in reducing the power consumption by using a more proper driver so this is not a real issue and I mention all this to preconsider a possible looping.  A low power DC-DC converter driven from the rectified output of an extra winding wowen into T1 could serve well as a stabilized 15 V DC supply for the oscillator and driver stages. (Even the driver stage can be eliminated which is the main issue in full input power consumption.) 

Would like you to clarify a "bug" in your Reply# 6098 this morning. In the first part of your post you wrote:

     "Also notice the value change for C1 and C2 along with the additional components you pointed out."

And then at the end of your post you wrote:          "EDIT: Note that C1 and C2 did not change!"

When you kindly shared the first schematic in Reply# 5984 (Oct. 27),  the values for C1 and C2 were indicated as 4.7 nF for each and this did not change in your schematic you showed as correct last night. 

Thanks,
Gyula

[shylo]

To Smudge,
Magnetic fields can defy gravity.
They also control electric field if manipulated
I think bouncing back and forth will just result in rundown.
Back and forth with a gain on one side ,has to out weigh the lose on the other.
Eliminate one side. Or at least reduce it.
In control of the flux , whether it be lines or force, It's there, learn how to use it.
artv

[tinman]

Brad:

My proposed test was all based around the scope capture in Smudge's report for the "negative resistance."   See the attached picture.  I make specific reference to it in my posting.

The intention was to run the setup at 3.62 MHz as per the attached scope capture where it appears that power is always flowing back to the function generator as per the math trace.

Like PW stated, ideally the one-ohm resistor would be in series with the function generator output and physically located as close as possible to the panel output itself.  If you wanted to make a useful jig you could use a male and female BNC with the one-ohm resistor between them.  A thick ground bridge between the two connectors and a test point and some hot glue built up around the device and you would have a nice current viewing jig that you could use anywhere inline in a BNC cable setup.

The intention is simple:  The scope shot in Smudge's report is showing power almost always being returned to the function generator for a "negative resistance."   Will the current viewing resistor always show power being returned to the function generator or not?

When I talk about current direction I am using shorthand.  If you drive a resistive load at low frquencins then it's taken for granted that the current is changing direction and there is always going to be a voltage drop across the one-ohm resistor showing that everything is normal.  Even though the polarity of the voltage across the one-ohm resistor changes, in either direction it is still a voltage drop.  Even though the current is changing direction through the AC cycle, that is a "normal change of current direction."  But if you look at the cases of driving an inductive or a capacitive load, then the current changes direction at a 90 degree phase angle relative to when you are driving a resistive load.  So using shorthand, that's what I meant by "current changing direction each cycle."

The gist of the test is this:  Smudge shows a scope capture at 3.62 MHz showing "negative resistance" with power almost always being returned to the function generator.   So, if you do the one-ohm test inline with your function generator output, will the detected current direction validate that measurement or not?

MileHigh

MH
Please draw a schematic for the test setup you wish me to try,as what you describe in the way of current direction dose not fit with the described test setup. If what i drew up in the first scope shot is correct(see pic below),then we are measuring the voltage either side of the CVR. In this case,any potential voltage difference across that CVR will determine the current flow direction through that CVR. As can be seen in all the scope shots i presented over the wide range of frequencies,the voltage on the HTT side of the CVR is always higher than that on the FG side of the CVR.

Second
Why do you think the VPP being delivered by my FG is dropping the higher this negative resistance rises?. The answer is simple. The FG is trying to push current in one direction,while the HTT is (at the same time)trying to push current in the opposite direction-->back to the FG. This can be seen in the scope shot's i posted in regards to your test. We see that the voltage is always higher on the HTT side of the CVR,which means the current flow through that CVR is from the HTT to the FG,while at the same time,the FG is trying to deliver a current that flows from the FG to the HTT.

[tinman]

Brad,

Here are the phase vectors for your latest set of runs done for MH.  The phase you are getting at the higher frequencies is to be expected, you can see that channel 2 leads channel 1 (all vectors rotate CCW with time).  So everything fits the negative resistance hypothesis.

Smudge

Yes,and using the math trace,where channel B(the FG side of the CVR) minus channel A (the HTT side of the CVR) we once again see a negative result.

[MileHigh]

MH
Please draw a schematic for the test setup you wish me to try,as what you describe in the way of current direction dose not fit with the described test setup. If what i drew up in the first scope shot is correct(see pic below),then we are measuring the voltage either side of the CVR. In this case,any potential voltage difference across that CVR will determine the current flow direction through that CVR. As can be seen in all the scope shots i presented over the wide range of frequencies,the voltage on the HTT side of the CVR is always higher than that on the FG side of the CVR.

Okay I attached a marked up graphic taken from Smudge's pdf.  From what I understand that is basis of the claim for the "negative resistance."  The setup uses the R2 inductive one-ohm resistor, and the primary.  Smudge took that data and crunched some numbers and arrived at a negative resistance.  Is that the claim that you are agreeing with also?  If there is another setup and another claim for a negative resistance then I am only talking about the claim in Smudge's pdf.

You can put Channel 1 on the top half of your scope display for the direct function generator output.  On the bottom half of the scope display you can put (Ch1 - Ch2) so that it shows you the voltage across the one-ohm resistor only.  Turn up the gain on your scope for (Ch1 - Ch2).   You do that properly and you will easily be able to see if the current flow is in phase with the function generator output or 90 degrees out of phase or somewhere in between.  You will be able to see the current direction and magnitude, and you have to relate that to the actual voltage being put out on the function generator as shown on the top half of your display and paying careful attention to what the current direction means when the function generator output is above zero volts vs. below zero volts.

Now looking at all that data, if you believe there is a "negative resistance" then that implies that power should always be flowing into the function generator, for both when the function generator output is above zero volts and below zero volts.  Will you actually see that, or will you see something else?  By looking at that scope display for the entire sine wave you will be able to easily say when current (and power) is flowing into the function generator and flowing out of the function generator.  You have to pay attention to the instantaneous polarity of the actual function generator output the whole time.

Simple guide:

Function Generator Voltage    Voltage on far side of resistor    (Ch1 - Ch2)     Current Direction             Power Direction
   Channel 1                                     Channel 2

  +10 Volts                                     +11 Volts                          - 1 Volt        Into FG                           Into FG
  +10 Volts                                     + 9 Volts                          +1 Volt         Out of FG                        Out of FG
  - 10 Volts                                     -11 Volts                          +1 Volt         Out of FG                        Into FG
  - 10 Volts                                     -9  Volts                            -1 Volt         Into FG                           Out of FG

MileHigh