Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

 author=Magluvin link=topic=15395.msg501271#msg501271 date=1488694339]

Hey brad

I m sorry to say that your test is inconclusive as it is not following some important details expressed in the vid. Maybe you didnt see the whole vid.

First off the windings need to be 3 to 1 as suggested at 12:55 and beyond in the vid.


Mags

Mags

You say the 3:1 ratio is needed.

Below is the pic you supplied of the toroid transformer.
I count 18 turns total on that toroid--so how do we get a 3:1 ratio from 18 turns?.

Brad

[Magluvin]

author=Magluvin link=topic=15395.msg501271#msg501271 date=1488694339]

Mags

You say the 3:1 ratio is needed.

Below is the pic you supplied of the toroid transformer.
I count 18 turns total on that toroid--so how do we get a 3:1 ratio from 18 turns?.

Brad

Its hard to get a good look at the thing to be exact, where the leads go in for sure and half turns to be counted.

It shows 73khz on the scope.

Did a quick sim to see some things with resonance in this situation.  Used a 50nf cap and a tansformer with 4h on one side and 12h on the other.

Just pulsing to see exactly what freq it rings at...

With just 4h winding 355.87hz  With 12h winding 118.6hz. Reasonable
With both connected one way 5.3khz and flipping the leads on one winding gave 10.5khz

Im kinda amazed his freq is below 1mhz with the blue winding toroid, but we dont know the value of the caps there. Not sure but I cant imagine even the larger winding being in the mh let alone when combined.

Not sure on anything Brad.  Some things will be a guess. But we should try to follow what we see as closely as possible.

Mags

[tinman]

Its hard to get a good look at the thing to be exact, where the leads go in for sure and half turns to be counted.

It shows 73khz on the scope.

Did a quick sim to see some things with resonance in this situation.  Used a 50nf cap and a tansformer with 4h on one side and 12h on the other.

Just pulsing to see exactly what freq it rings at...

With just 4h winding 355.87hz  With 12h winding 118.6hz. Reasonable
With both connected one way 5.3khz and flipping the leads on one winding gave 10.5khz

Im kinda amazed his freq is below 1mhz with the blue winding toroid, but we dont know the value of the caps there. Not sure but I cant imagine even the larger winding being in the mh let alone when combined.

Not sure on anything Brad.  Some things will be a guess. But we should try to follow what we see as closely as possible.

Mags

Well i redid the test.
Wound a new transformer with exactly 3:1 winding ratio.

Simply cannot achieve a resonant frequency with the two different coils in play. I can achieve resonance with each individual coil-but not both together.

There is also still no phase shift of 180*-both coils current is in phase.

As can be seen in the video,the cap is just using power,and not helping at all.

Enough time spent on this one for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x--KQf9TqB4


Brad

[Magluvin]

Hey Brad

What are you driving it with? What is the max freq you can get for input as you have it set up?  The freq of the windings individual, one higher and one lower are not in the vicinity of when the coils are combined. That freq can be 15 to 45 times those freq respectively. So you may not be hitting that freq. Dunno. I only know that you said 4.62k freq, I didnt here what the individual coils were ringing at with the cap. If thats an audio amp it may not pass the freq you need to make that thing ring when combined. Most are max 50khz but more than likely somewhere around 20khz. Like in the scope shot on Chris's vid, it had shown 57khz or so and your windings are similar with possibly less capacitance, so you may need to go higher.  And one more thing, try without the light bulbs. Those will kill resonance drastically by the added resistance and even more, the voltage drops is just killin it.  What value are the resistors? Even 1ohm may be too much, unless we are counting the losses there also.

And another thing thats possible is the second winding may need to be reversed and tested. Makes a big difference in the way the 2 winding work together.

I dunno. This thing has me goin.  So far, no matter what I do on sim, the 2 windings are flowing current in the opposite direction and I see no way of getting them to do otherwise in this config, one winding reverse connections or not. If we connect it one way the windings will oppose and the other they will not. Like this, if the windings are in parallel and oppose each other magnetically, there would be a drastic change if we reverse one winding. So its is good to always try the other way, just in case the drawing is incorrect in specifying, or mistakes.   My conclusion so far is that when the windings are connected in parallel, one way or the other, one of the windings magnetically overcomes the other winding and forces the current in the other winding in opposition to the input, thus enough emf opposite of the input and that current joined in to the first coil supplementing the the input, thus more current into the first coil that should be coming from the input. Still wrapping my head around some things here.


And it is the lower count winding that is influencing the higher count winding to do so, as it is a step up conversion of induced current in the second winding that is above the pressure of the input.  I find that kinda cool, to say the least.  Like we would never run across that situation anywhere in typical tech. So it has an odd property that I think needs a further look. Mix that with resonance, there may be something.

Mags

[tinman]

Hey Brad

What are you driving it with? What is the max freq you can get for input as you have it set up?  The freq of the windings individual, one higher and one lower are not in the vicinity of when the coils are combined. That freq can be 15 to 45 times those freq respectively. So you may not be hitting that freq. Dunno. I only know that you said 4.62k freq, I didnt here what the individual coils were ringing at with the cap. If thats an audio amp it may not pass the freq you need to make that thing ring when combined. Most are max 50khz but more than likely somewhere around 20khz. Like in the scope shot on Chris's vid, it had shown 57khz or so and your windings are similar with possibly less capacitance, so you may need to go higher.  And one more thing, try without the light bulbs. Those will kill resonance drastically by the added resistance and even more, the voltage drops is just killin it.  What value are the resistors? Even 1ohm may be too much, unless we are counting the losses there also.

And another thing thats possible is the second winding may need to be reversed and tested. Makes a big difference in the way the 2 winding work together.

I dunno. This thing has me goin.  So far, no matter what I do on sim, the 2 windings are flowing current in the opposite direction and I see no way of getting them to do otherwise in this config, one winding reverse connections or not. If we connect it one way the windings will oppose and the other they will not. Like this, if the windings are in parallel and oppose each other magnetically, there would be a drastic change if we reverse one winding. So its is good to always try the other way, just in case the drawing is incorrect in specifying, or mistakes.   My conclusion so far is that when the windings are connected in parallel, one way or the other, one of the windings magnetically overcomes the other winding and forces the current in the other winding in opposition to the input, thus enough emf opposite of the input and that current joined in to the first coil supplementing the the input, thus more current into the first coil that should be coming from the input. Still wrapping my head around some things here.


And it is the lower count winding that is influencing the higher count winding to do so, as it is a step up conversion of induced current in the second winding that is above the pressure of the input.  I find that kinda cool, to say the least.  Like we would never run across that situation anywhere in typical tech. So it has an odd property that I think needs a further look. Mix that with resonance, there may be something.

Mags

Mags

I have tried reversing the coils polarity,and see no difference at all with this new transformer.

There is also the fact that you seem to have current flowing in opposite directions through the two coils-no matter what,and i have the current flowing in the same direction through the two coils-no matter what.

I have tried 3 different transformer types now,and not one shows current flowing through the coils in opposite directions. Nor do i ever see the current through L1 -or L2 being higher than the supply current.

Even if we could achieve that,that is nothing new,as the simple SSG pulse motor can achieve a higher current flow through the output loop,than the current flowing into the motor.,
So i see nothing special about this design,as we have achieved the same results with pulse motors we have built in the past.

Increasing the current through the transformer loop,will only increase waste heat-nothing more-unless you have a thought towards what you may be able to do with this increased current flow?.


Brad