Open Systems

[MarkE]

No prob

The answer is surprisingly  slow comming.
Maybe careful thought is being given to this,as they know what's comming?.
Could the truck driver actually be able to show an extra energy output without it effecting the already accounted for energy input
Whats this,energy from gravity and buoyancy without any apparent energy input:D

It's the same accounting problem as before. 

[tinman]

The buoyant force is the force of gravity on the displaced volume of water.  The water if it can will sink into the volume occupied by the buoyant float.It takes work to increase the GPE of the system.  When an object is sunk an equivalent volume of water must be lifted out of the space that the object ends up occupying.  If the SG of the sunk object is less than that of the water it displaces, more mass moves up than moves down, requiring work.   If the SG is greater than the surrounding water, then the object sinks passively, releasing work.  Conversely, when a sunk object is lifted, a like volume of water falls into the space that the sunk object occupied.  If the SG is less than the surrounding water then the water sinks passively, releasing work as the object rises.  If the SG is greater than the surrounding water, then more mass moves up than down, and work must be done to lift the sunken object.If the SG is the same as the surrounding water then no GPE changes with any move.  But rheology will still take its toll.

Truly excellent
Piece by piece were getting it done Mark

Now one thing we forgot here to look at.

Is all the stored energy in our hydrogen and oxygen gases converted into heat energy if we ignite the mix of the two gases-->so we have mixed our two gases together,and we send that mix through say a hydroxy torch. We have ofcourse ignited the gas mix coming out of the torch.

We want to account for all the stored energy within the two gases now.

[MarkE]

Truly excellent
Piece by piece were getting it done Mark

Now one thing we forgot here to look at.

Is all the stored energy in our hydrogen and oxygen gases converted into heat energy if we ignite the mix of the two gases-->so we have mixed our two gases together,and we send that mix through say a hydroxy torch. We have ofcourse ignited the gas mix coming out of the torch.

All the chemical bond energy will convert to heat in the reaction.  When the resulting H₂O falls back to the liquid state the phase change energy will also be released as heat.  If you use a torch to ignite the mixture, then you could have a real measurement resolution issue to deal with, as you will need to know precisely how much heat the torch adds over the course of the event period.

We want to account for all the stored energy within the two gases now.

Yes we do.

[tinman]

All the chemical bond energy will convert to heat in the reaction.  When the resulting H₂O falls back to the liquid state the phase change energy will also be released as heat.

Fabulous news Mark

If you use a torch to ignite the mixture, then you could have a real measurement resolution issue to deal with, as you will need to know precisely how much heat the torch adds over the course of the event period.

No No-the torch is what has the mixture of gas going through it-were not useing a torch to ignite the gas-we can use a small spark for that. we are running the HHO mix through the HHO torch as a way to mix and burn the gas, We could use any sort of gas heater designed to burn HHO to do the heating. As long as we have accounted for all the stored energy within the HHO mix being converted into heat during the phase change.

I would like you to look over the whole process now,and see that we have accounted for all the energy supplied by the battery as we feel we have. This energy supplied by the battery should now all have been converted into heat once the HHO has been ignited,and made that phase change back into water.

I am just about to hit the hay,and up early to start another weeks work on the road. I am going to give others also the chance to take a look over all the post here,and see if they think there is something we have missed.
We should now have accounted for all the energy that was supplied to the electrolisis system,and that supplied energy should now have been converted into heat.

Come friday night,i will put forth the open side of the design-->this is where the extra energy will come into play,but this is only after all here are happy with the summation so far.

P.S
Thanks for all your help on this Mark I know some times we may not see eye to eye on what we believe to be true,but your help is much appreciated.

TinMan

[MarkE]

Fabulous news Mark

No No-the torch is what has the mixture of gas going through it-were not useing a torch to ignite the gas-we can use a small spark for that. we are running the HHO mix through the HHO torch as a way to mix and burn the gas, We could use any sort of gas heater designed to burn HHO to do the heating. As long as we have accounted for all the stored energy within the HHO mix being converted into heat during the phase change.

I would like you to look over the whole process now,and see that we have accounted for all the energy supplied by the battery as we feel we have. This energy supplied by the battery should now all have been converted into heat once the HHO has been ignited,and made that phase change back into water.

I am just about to hit the hay,and up early to start another weeks work on the road. I am going to give others also the chance to take a look over all the post here,and see if they think there is something we have missed.
We should now have accounted for all the energy that was supplied to the electrolisis system,and that supplied energy should now have been converted into heat.

Come friday night,i will put forth the open side of the design-->this is where the extra energy will come into play,but this is only after all here are happy with the summation so far.

P.S
Thanks for all your help on this Mark I know some times we may not see eye to eye on what we believe to be true,but your help is much appreciated.

TinMan

We have talked about the different things going on.  We have yet to perform any kind of numerical accounting.  An accounting means that we will actual construct a model even if it is just a simple paper form or better a spreadsheet.  Then there is the matter of obtaining data to assign each item. 

Is it your belief that you are going to get a surplus of energy on paper without performing measurements?