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Overunity Machines Forum



Switchable Magnets.

Started by synchro1, May 05, 2015, 11:45:59 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

synchro1

Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on May 07, 2015, 09:04:30 PM
Hi Synchro,

Here is a patent that uses rocker arms, the translation is really bad though but the images show the general idea.

CN102510242A - Permanent-magnet power machine and method for converting magnetic energy into mechanical energy

https://www.google.com/patents/CN102510242A

@DreamThinkBuild,

This 3 year old patent is a nearly an identical idea. Parts of it are very complex compared to the our current "Servo Magnet Switch" design. He's turning the magnets labeled "2" and "10" 180º. His power extraction involves a clutching mechanism. Well worth closer scrutiny. He has two "Reciprocators" in tandem.  Good find! Thanks.

Pirate88179

These types of devices have been around for about 100 years.  They are common in every machine shop I have ever worked in or owned.
There are called magnetic chucks.

http://www.magnetoolinc.com/chucks-sine-plates/permanent-magnetic-chucks.php

When turned on using a simple lever, they will hold steel grinding plates so hard, you can not remove them with a hammer.  When turned off,
a steel ruler, or anything with iron, will have no attraction to it at all.

I have owned probably 40 of these in my lifetime.  The newer, better ones are electromagnetic and are sealed so they almost never fail.
The permanent magnet type wears out eventually.  Not the magnets themselves, but the mechanism that aligns/disaligns the flux lines
will get to a point that it no longer operates properly.  They can be repaired but, taking one apart is very, very hard as the flux is usually aligned (on) when they fail.(Murphy's law)  Coolant seeps inside past the seals eventually and this helps the internal parts wear out faster.

We had to use a forklift to take one apart.

Anyway, nothing new and I do not see how this could be used in any useful way as you need energy to switch the device on and off.  Sometimes, a lot of energy.

Bill

PS  The largest one we had was 12" x 36".  That was a monster!
See the Joule thief Circuit Diagrams, etc. topic here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6942.0;topicseen

synchro1

Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 07, 2015, 11:10:29 PM
These types of devices have been around for about 100 years.  They are common in every machine shop I have ever worked in or owned.
There are called magnetic chucks.

http://www.magnetoolinc.com/chucks-sine-plates/permanent-magnetic-chucks.php

When turned on using a simple lever, they will hold steel grinding plates so hard, you can not remove them with a hammer.  When turned off,
a steel ruler, or anything with iron, will have no attraction to it at all.

I have owned probably 40 of these in my lifetime.  The newer, better ones are electromagnetic and are sealed so they almost never fail.
The permanent magnet type wears out eventually.  Not the magnets themselves, but the mechanism that aligns/disaligns the flux lines
will get to a point that it no longer operates properly.  They can be repaired but, taking one apart is very, very hard as the flux is usually aligned (on) when they fail.(Murphy's law)  Coolant seeps inside past the seals eventually and this helps the internal parts wear out faster.

We had to use a forklift to take one apart.

Anyway, nothing new and I do not see how this could be used in any useful way as you need energy to switch the device on and off.  Sometimes, a lot of energy.

Bill

PS  The largest one we had was 12" x 36".  That was a monster!

@Pirate88179,

The decisive factor is the ratio of magnetic holding strength to switch force. A magnet switch with 300 pounds of holding strength should  be 10 times harder to switch then one with 30 right? I really don't know what the true relationship is. I don't believe it's a direct proportion. An increase in holding strength with a stable switch force would signal a gain possibility, right? The chiral twin switches, solenoid and rocker arm design looks pretty clean at this time. 江涌, 王龙元 are the Chinese inventors of a nearly identical concept above. The major difference between the two approaches is the 180º versus the 90º switch throw. The 90º advantage is tremendous. 

synchro1

I sent an email inquiry to "Noga" and asked their engineers if their switch force increases with holding strength. We can start popping our champagne corks if they report back that it's non-proportional.

synchro1

I haven't heard back from "Noga" yet but I can assure everyone that their "Magnetic Base" employs a "Flux-Decoupling Mechanism", or it would just be a complete piece of crap, not an industrial standard. The switch must handle just the weight of the magnets, the flux redirected by steel keepers before switching. I'll get back with a report if I get a response from them.