Permanent magnet motor

[MagnaProp]

You put two disc magnets like on the drawing below. You really feel the rotating force...

I have felt this force also but it is misleading. Spent a lot of time on this. An easier way of visualizing what is happening is to keep the bottom magnet stationary and feel the force of the other magnet trying to rotate around it. Assuming the bottom magnet can't move, the other magnet tries to rotate around the red axis and then flop down so the S and N poles touch each other if you let them. But if you hold the top magnet in between your fingers on the side, then it feels like it wants to rotate around the edge of the bottom magnet. But I found this is only because as the top magnet tries to rotate around the red axis, you unknowingly apply equal pressure to prevent the magnet from rotating and this pressure is what actually makes the magnet feel like it wants to move forward. It's because you are unknowingly pushing it forward while keeping it aligned to the edge of the bottom magnet.

Since your bottom magnet can move, what you are feeling is it trying to rotate around that same red axis to get the S and N poles lined up. As you can see, the red axis is not in the center of the large bottom magnet so it won't spin if its rotation point is put in the center as in your test.

So basically the magnets just try to get to the edge of the other magnet. The easiest way possible depending on how they are hinged. I made a magnet motor design on paper based on this but I seriously doubt it will work in real life.

[ayeaye]

An easier way of visualizing what is happening is to keep the bottom magnet stationary and feel the force of the other magnet trying to rotate around it.

Why to do it that way, making things more unclear?

The feeling is very subjective, i know, and not really an evidence, but at least one has to do it the right way to feel it. The feeling is that the rotating magnet rotates more easily in one direction, than in the other.

If you make a magnet motor like that, it most likely will not work, because even if there is a rotating force, it cannot overcome friction. Good if there were a way to measure forces, like maybe using some quartz crystals.

Maybe one can try to hang it from the nikolayev trailer hitch, then likely at least two stator magnets have to be used on both sides, to balance it. But i suspect that the nikolayev trailer hitch is very unstable radially. The only way i have seen it used is that they put a pipe through this large disc magnet, and the hanging magnet is inside that pipe. I have thought, is that pipe also to prevent the hanging magnet from moving radially, if so, it cannot really be used as a magnetic bearing.

[MagnaProp]

Why to do it that way, making things more unclear?...

Sorry. It's easier for me to understand that way. If the bottom magnet moves then maybe this image is easier to understand. It will want to move 90 degrees clockwise, then stop. It will want to pivot around the vertical red line axis if allowed to.

The only reason it may feel like it wants to rotate like a wheel is because table friction is essentially pinning it down along the orange vertical axis, which causes its right side to move into the page trying to obtain the same orientation as in the first scenario.

...If you make a magnet motor like that, it most likely will not work, because even if there is a rotating force, it cannot overcome friction...

Yes, friction is the biggest issue in my design. Its only hope is that the magnets are stronger than the friction and a couple other things. It would be a miracle if it self ran and an even bigger miracle if you could extract any electricity from it

[ayeaye]

Magnaprop, i think try to use the mendocino magnetic bearings, read this thread above, the best solution i think so far, though not completely frictionless. Very easy to make too, you need only six disc magnets, a pencil or something, and maybe the best a piece of glass, such as a small mirror, to decrease friction. A bit of an act of balancing though. Sure two stator magnets at both sides to balance the radial forces. Maybe use some cardboard box to hold it all, or make it, use mounting tape to fix things, then you can adjust them all. Well, i in fact made the thing out of old cigarette lighters, but not sure whether this thing can be made that way. In hope it may help.

[MagnaProp]

Magnaprop, i think try to use the mendocino magnetic bearings...

Thanks I may try that but the design I'm working with causes more friction than even regular bearings cause. Slight design flaw on my part perhaps. The design is similar to your design. I think it works by acting like a long magnet with strong mushroom shaped poles at the ends but not much force in between.