Gravity powered water generator

[Brutus]

Thanks for the  encouragement. 

First Carrol:  Sorry, My bad.   Yes I would like to build it.  It's my passion.  But I would like to go large enough to make it worth while in the end.    But I want to make sure I get it as close to right as humanly possible.  That is why I am so grateful to all of you for your  interest and impute.   I think with all of your help this project has evolved  considerably.  I now have much more knowledge to make a more feasible enlightened approach to the build as I could never have done alone.  And yes,I should probably do a scaled down version first so I'm not sleeping in the dog house later.  (Happy wife, Happy life).   I will look into a straight compressor as you suggested.  It would save a lot one way but create more in another.  But it did make me pause and give more to think about.  I am for any idea that makes the system better, more functional.   I had intended to use the bunch of bicycles I acquired for this purpose and so have some wheels and multiply gearing capabilities at hand.  I thought of making the U-Tube Wilkerson step up gearing plan mentioned on the 1st page, but I have found the shafts are going to be a problem getting them from one spot to another in the step up process.  I don't have access to a machine shop any more as I did for twenty years.  That's why I drew the step up gears using  stronger shafts, gears and chains.   It sounds like I am kind of late to this rodeo.  All of you have traveled this freight train before. 

webby1;  I looked at your suggested sites and something popped into my head.  It is kind of a different approach  to a compressor of sorts.  Don't know if it would even be functional except in my head.  But scan 26 shows a really rough outline of the idea.    Wish I could draw.


Sorry it's sideways;  The idea is, if I use an impeller, like in a water boat, or some other type item that will agitate and push the mixture through, if I could use a pipe with air and a pipe with water coming together then going through the turbine/impeller, and causing a (cavitation/frothing) of the mixture and sending it out to a pipe to the buckets where the air would rise out of an opening, or a separator of sorts,  filling the buckets with air and  leaving the water to continue down and out farther on.    This would be driven by the bucket conveyor.   With a step up gear array.

Another way could be to set up partly on the surface to get the air and partly submerged to get the water and then forced down through the pipe servicer.  Though that may be to much distance to keep the air and water combined.     It's just an idea at this point to ask if it is doable.  Placement is up for debate as to best application.  At least your home work assignments are getting me to think.

Kind of goes with Carrol's ballast  homework also. 

Also, just as a side bar;  I was looking at a Toyota Prius water pump 2004-2009 on u-tube and was impressed with the volume of water it pumped with just a 12 volt solar panel.  I could use that as a secondary to add to the water buckets to  keep the needed water coming.  (covering the losses).  It is still in keeping with my off grid theme.  I might have to  use two to get a decent flow to that height. Just from the water level it shot what looked like a 5/8 to1 in.diameter stream about 3 to 4 feet into the air using no pipe.

[citfta]

Hi Brutus,

Here is an online calculator that you can use to determine the water pressure at the bottom of your tank.  You will then only need enough air pressure to overcome the water pressure to get air into your buckets.  Hope this information is helpful.

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/other/games/depth_press

Carroll

[Brutus]

citfta:  Thanks for the calculator.   I am old school in that I don't know meters and such.  So what do I put the bottom right list on?  If I want to see what the answer would be if I was  9 feet deep?  I got 1.3 with what was set there already.  Or I will just study it more and learn how to use it properly.  I just don't know what any of the initials, (letters),stand for. 

I have been looking into my last idea and found I am way behind.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGrfNn9nUdQ  As usual, many have come before.  I found just googling that there are several methods that do exactly the same thing I was trying to do. 

One method was  a tank liquid agitator/aerator called an Eductor.  Simply a miniature, compact version of what I thought I had come up with.   But it did show that my idea was possible. 

Another was a Venturi Aerator.  The problem with these two ideas is I would still need to generate a water flow to make them work.  And each may not be as useful as just a compressor would be.

  A third was what caught my interest the most as it fits better in my set up.  It is along the same thought webby1 had I think.    It is called a turbine vortex generation aerator.  It simply uses a shaft to turn a special built turbine that spins the water to a point where it creates air bubbles.  From the materials I have been reading I assume it is the boiling point of the water creating the Phenomena.   The simple one I saw on the U-Tube video  was only operated by a hand drill.  It was made from some disks put together.  Kind of reminded me of a Tesla pump with out the casing. I don't know how it was put together.  (what was in between the disks).  I could probably build one if I knew.  Maybe impeller type blades.  I would need to encase the general area around it though due to the turbulence/spin it creates, or capturing and guiding the air bubbles would be a problem. 

So I now have several methods to choose from on the large build. Not sure yet of the best method to use.   I am not above asking for any one's opinion.  I know citfta says an air compressor.  But with all the additional dialog may have changed his mind.  Just looking for the best approach and function.    I can use the buckets and a step up array to power it.   I know many of you have been down this road already so your impute is worth it's weight in gold. 

I had already bought the wire cable and plugs for the air pipe system.  That with the bicycles, wheels and sprockets I acquired and are on hand, I might just try that way first on my small test model.   Just need the pvc pipe and plug stops to complete the list.   Just wondering if the drag from all the plugs going through the open side in the water would negate the gain.  They are made from pine so they would have a little float to them.   Wait a minute.  A new thought.  (Thinking out loud).

I think if I were to make the plugs out of some air filled membrane, like plastic plugs, or slightly elongated air sacks for even more lift,  I could  eliminate the problem of water drag all together.  And, actually gain more lift and more energy for the system.  Working two air lift systems, the plugs and the buckets.  Sounding better all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpmEQctfqcI  (Venturi effect)

And lastly.  I think the collapseable buckets are more efficient.  Using a plastic type membrane, (Webby1's idea),  or clothe like a water bag type or just leather totes.  Just so they would open when filling with air and collapse when dumped at the top.  That would drastically reduce the drag from the bucket system while rotating to the fill point.  And so provide more energy/thrust gain.  I am thinking the plastic would be better.  Totally less drag, friction and smaller presence. (Foot print). 

Foot note:  I am amazed and excited at the progress and alterations this idea has come to.   It is on the verge of a working model. (In my opinion).  With just a few more  conceptual items, (mentioned above), to work out, I think, thanks to all of you,  we have done it. 

Set up the assembly with collapseable buckets and air filled plugs on the air drive system and waa laa.  I have no doubt it would run its self.  The taller you go,  the bigger the buckets, the more thrust/hp would be available to run a generator for home power.  My original desire to find an off grid system.  ( Me Thinks).

[Brutus]

Forgot to put in the vortex aeration U-tube site; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MrYcbpREjQ

[citfta]

Hi Brutus,

To use the calculator I linked to just go to the two rectangular boxes with the down pointing arrows.  In the top one click on the arrow and choose feet.  In the bottom rectangle click on the arrow and choose psi which is way at the bottom of the list.  Then when you enter the height  of your water tower it will give you the pressure in pounds per square inch or psi.  That is the pressure you will need to overcome with your air pressure in order to force air into the water.

I do like the idea of some sort of collapsible scoop or bucket to catch the air so it will have less drag coming back down through the water.  Some sort of bucket type device might also work if it had a lid that was hinged and could swing easily.  It would need to be sealed on the top side when closed.  The rising air would push the lid up until it sealed and then raise the bucket.  On the way down the water would push the lid open and create less drag.  Kind of the reverse of the old time well buckets we used as a kid.  They had a flap in the bottom of a long piece of round downspout.  As you let it down in the well the water pushing up opened the flap.  When you pulled it up the water above the flap held it closed and allowed you to raise a pipe full of water.

Take care,
Carroll