Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[MileHigh]

SUBJECT: Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficient motor using Fly-back

By 'more efficient' we mean: 'over-unity'; COP > 1
By 'using Fly-back' we mean: by using the energy received back from a primary coil after the initial source energizing said primary coil has been switched off.

Nope, by "more efficient" we mean trying to put as much of the supply power as possible into making the rotor spin.  What goes hand-in-hand with that is we want to reduce the resistive losses as much as possible within reason.

Your analogies are somewhat bizarre and don't really make sense to me.  You talk about a "phase change" and a "polarized field" without defining them.  This is an exercise in basic electronics - a basic pulse circuit.  A much more applicable analogy to the circuit would be moving masses or spinning flywheels, mechanical springs, and calipers with brake pads.  It's more mundane sounding but much more real.

[gotoluc]

Minoly correctly uses quotations when he says "high voltage coil."  It's very poor terminology.  There is no such thing as a "high voltage coil."  Any coil can generate high voltage or be driven by high voltage, hence the use of that term as well as "low voltage coil" does not really make sense.  From now on I will use the terms "drive coil" or "low inductance coil" and "secondary coil" or "high inductance coil" to refer to the two coils.

Nilrehob's comments about the mechanical analogies for circuit components are excellent and I am a big fan of that.  For inductors, I like the heavy spinning flywheel on a ball bearing analogy, but his moving mass analogy is equally valid.  I asked and got no answer about what happens when the drive coil outputs the current pulse into the secondary coil and there is no capacitor present.  Many of you guys are too shy and you only feel safe doing the same old tests and discussing the same old things that you have done many times before.  Time to break out of the box.  How would you frame the question and then answer the question if you substitute the drive coil and secondary coil for a pair of flywheels?  Do that correctly and the answer comes very easily.

MH

I'm going to ask you to be more tolerant when it comes to using the correct schooled engineering terminology. Nilrehob's is obviously an engineer, so that's why what he says or writes works for you (same school)
However, the reality on free energy sites like this one is, most experimenters are not school trained, as they are looking for something that is not taught in schools.

So don't nitpick on details like you did in your post, as you know quite well what he means.

I'll share my thoughts on Nilrehob's work... I can't understand most of what he is sharing as I have no school training. I never even finished high school. I quite on my 16th birthday as it was hell for 10 years. But that doesn't make me less then others who have schooling, it actually allows me to be creative and not just stick to what I was taught.

So be more tolerant and don't criticize as you were never taught what we are looking for, have you?

Kind regards

Luc

[minoly]

Luc,
I don't understand why you keep deleting my posts. I'm trying to understand more clearly exactly what you are doing. You even go on to answer my question yet you still delete my post???

MH

I'm going to ask you to be more tolerant when it comes to using the correct schooled engineering terminology. Nilrehob's is obviously an engineer, so that why what he says or writes works for you (same school)
However, the reality on free energy sites like this one is, most experimenters are not schooled trained as they are looking for something that is not taught in schools.

So don't nitpick on details like you did in your post, as you know quite well what he means.

I'll share my thoughts on Nilrehob's work... I can't understand most of what he is sharing as I have no school training. I never even finished high school. I quite on my 16th birthday as it was hell for 10 years. But that doesn't make me less then others who have schooling, it actually allows me to be creative and not just stick to what I was taught.

So be more tolerant and don't criticize as you were never taught what we are looking for, have you?

Kind regards

Luc

[gyulasun]

Hi Laurent,

Thanks for showing the waveforms across the 4 different placement of the 1 Ohm (current shunt) resistor around the flyback circuit.   In the meantime I figured that we could arrive at energy calculations in a relatively easy way, see below, albeit this would involve one more measurement from you... 

I think if we wish to estimate the energy in the secondary (assistant) coil, then you could use a 10 Ohm non-inductive resistor instead of the 1 Ohm and repeat step 4 to learn about the current in the secondary coil. I suggest this because then we could calculate the energy in the coil by the (1.8*I*I)/2 and we can also calculate the (heat) loss in the 210 Ohm coil resistance. I suggest the 10 Ohm because it is still negligible with respect to the 210 Ohm and the scoped waveform will be 10 times bigger, this helps evaluating the coil current better than with the 1 Ohm. Try to make sure the scope should display the average or at least the rms value of the coil current waveform, this would make it easier to get the loss.

I think you used the 0.3 uF capacitor for the scope waveforms, right? This involved a cca 130 V flyback pulse across the drive coil if I recall correctly, is this correct?  If yes, then we know that the peak voltage across the 0.3 uF capacitor must have been also about 130 V (let's neglect the 0.7 V forward voltage drop of the flyback diode). If this is correct, then the energy stored in this capacitor in the moment of the full peak voltage across it is Ec=(C*V*V)/2.
So it is (0.0000003*130*130)/2= 0.00253 Joule or 2.53 mJ. This energy will be going into the secondary coil.  This energy could be used as a cross-checking for the energy in the secondary coil received from the 10 Ohm current shunt measurement.

Now to estimate the input power if you wish to know about it, then probably the input DC current times the input DC voltage should give a good approximation, read from your power supply meters. Perhaps the use of an electrolytic filter capacitor right across the voltage input of the circuit, (say at least a 220 or 470 uF or higher) would help reduce the current meter fluctuations. The capacitor's positive leg would directly connect to the reed switch positive end and the negative leg of the capacitor would go to the negative end of the drive coil via the shortest connecting wire. You could also build the RC filter circuit for the input as Luc uses such with the two electrolytic caps with a 0.1 Ohm resistor in beween. Of course, a some mH choke coil with low DC resistance would also be good here instead of the R member of the filter and the current meter of the power supply would "calm down".  But possibly the single parallel capacitor will hopefully suffice.

Thanks,  Gyula

PS  MileHigh: okay, thanks.

[Magluvin]

Nilrehob's comments about the mechanical analogies for circuit components are excellent and I am a big fan of that.  For inductors, I like the heavy spinning flywheel on a ball bearing analogy, but his moving mass analogy is equally valid.  I asked and got no answer about what happens when the drive coil outputs the current pulse into the secondary coil and there is no capacitor present.  Many of you guys are too shy and you only feel safe doing the same old tests and discussing the same old things that you have done many times before.  Time to break out of the box.  How would you frame the question and then answer the question if you substitute the drive coil and secondary coil for a pair of flywheels?  Do that correctly and the answer comes very easily.

I believe I posted what happens if the cap were not there one page back.

http://overunity.com/16167/sharing-ideas-on-how-to-make-a-more-efficent-motor-using-flyback-moderated/msg466132/#msg466132

"I had looked through my vids to see if i had one, but dont....  I remember trying to get a bemf spike into a higher henry coil and the higher H coil seemed to block most of the spike rather than take advantage of the full potential. Like a subwoofer crossover coil, it blocks out the high frequencies.  So the capacitor across your higher inductance coil probably loads up first then delivers it charge to the parallel coil?

Mags"

Mags