Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[MileHigh]

Well, I know for a fact that I am not as smart or as skilled as Verpies, but I can off some suggestions for Itsu and the team to consider.

I see that C2 gets charged to a high voltage.  How about trying another cap of the same value, or just trying another cap value completely, perhaps between 2X and 10X larger?  You get the new peak voltages, do the numbers still crunch to "over unity?"  I realize that you want to keep the cap voltages high to minimize the effect of the diode drop on the measurements.

Then there are two related mechanisms to check the output pulse energy.  First of all, disconnect the MOSFT cap discharge circuit.  Use a very large cap for C2 and charge it to say 12 volts at the start of the test.  Then run the pulse motor with your time base set to very slow.  Count motor pulses and record the gradual increase in voltage on C2.  Then you can simply pick a pulse range and a voltage range and calculate the energy per pulse.  So you have a certain advantage here with time-averaging helping you out.

The other thing is to use a large C2 and just put a known value of bleeder resistor across C2 and run the pulse motor.  This is the "inflating a leaky tire" technique.  Just run the pulse motor until the voltage across the big cap completely stabilizes.  Take your scope and make sure that the voltage across the big cap is near-DC.  Then with an accurate measurement of the RMS voltage across the cap with a good multimeter, and an accurate measurement of the resistance of the bleeder resistor, and an accurate measurement of the pulse rate, you just have to crunch the numbers to get the back spike energy per pulse.

Right now my assumption is for the sake of argument that something is amiss with the measurement of the energy in the back spike.  Therefore I am suggesting a few alternative ways to measure that energy.   If all of the measurement methods agree within five percent, my instincts would be telling me that the problem would be in the measuring the energizing of the drive pulse itself, even though at first glance that also looks pretty well done and quite straightforward and not prone to problems.

Anyway, I won't go into that for now, but the train of thought would be the same - come up with some alternative ways of measuring the energy going into the drive pulse.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Isnt it amazing what can be found when one has an open mind when it comes to these laws of physics. As i stated before Verpies,it would only be you of the EE guys that would take note of what others have to show when it go's against these known laws--oh and the books lol.

276%
No bad Itsu--not to bad at all

Brad

The problem is that you are jumping the gun again.  Good science and good testing and measuring of experimental data is never achieved by jumping the gun.

[tinman]

The problem is that you are jumping the gun again.  Good science and good testing and measuring of experimental data is never achieved by jumping the gun.

I have been watching this very carefully MH, and have faith in Verpies measurement procedure and calculations. It is great to see Itsu taking it far enough to see the results he is getting. I would also ask if you really think an error of over 100% has been made here?


Brad.

[Magluvin]

I have a 3 phase automotive cooling fan motor that has a bell rotor with 3 mags inside the bell and a stator that is inside the bell with 3 coils. As basic as it gets. Im going to disconnect the windings from each other ad see what I can come up with there as a test bed. Has heavy windings and has a small magnet wheel with alt poles to trigger 3 halls. 



Mags

Sorry. 6 individual coils and 4 magnets. Dont know what I was thinking.


Mags

[MileHigh]

I have been watching this very carefully MH, and have faith in Verpies measurement procedure and calculations. It is great to see Itsu taking it far enough to see the results he is getting. I would also ask if you really think an error of over 100% has been made here?

Brad.

I have a lot of faith in Verpies and Itsu.  Yes I think an error of over 100% has been made and I am willing to bet you that Verpies and Itsu also believe that an error has been made.  My assumption right now is that they will continue this investigation and find out where the error was.  Things like this have happened many times in the past and they are bound to happen again.  I will just repeat that you are jumping the gun.

Let's see what happens.

MileHigh