Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[MileHigh]

Blast from the past from JLN and Steorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqAF_c5ThoI

When you hear the big buzzing sound the coil is doing electrical-to-mechanical work to make that happen - it is exporting power to the outside world.

Note how the rise time of the current waveform increases significantly (the slope decreases) when the coil is doing real world work.   AKA, "negative-induced voltage in series with the battery voltage."

[poynt99]

Well, thats the problem with words, they can be explained differently as one had originally intended, if not selected carefully, like in this case.

What i was trying to say was that it looks like the magnets (fields) are inducing this "negative-induced voltage in series with the battery voltage"
against the power needed to drive the coil.

So at that instance, this "negative-induced voltage" seems stronger then the driving power for the rotor (otherwise we would not "see" the effects
of this "negative-induced voltage"), but it does not mean that "the rotor seems to be putting more energy back into the system than it takes to run it"

Itsu

Thanks for clearing that up Itsu. 

That makes sense.

[gotoluc]

Blast from the past from JLN and Steorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqAF_c5ThoI

When you hear the big buzzing sound the coil is doing electrical-to-mechanical work to make that happen - it is exporting power to the outside world.

Note how the rise time of the current waveform increases significantly (the slope decreases) when the coil is doing real world work.   AKA, "negative-induced voltage in series with the battery voltage."

Hi MH,

this is indeed an interesting demo and effect. However, I don't think it's relevant to what is being tested here as I'm quite sure the effect demonstrated in JLN video you posted is due to a rise in inductance which occurs when a magnet approaches the Finemet Nanocrystalline toroid cores which were used in the Orbo experiment.

So I don't think you have the answer.

Luc

[MileHigh]

No, if anything, the presence of an external magnetic field should interfere with the core material's normal domain flipping and effectively reduce the inductance and therefore make the current waveform rise more quickly.

For some strange reason JLN states, "When the lag of the current is max, here is the angle where the coil must be energized by the controller."  He is looking for the best performance of that strange pulse motor demoed by Steorn, and to get that all that you would really want would be to energize the coil a smidgen before TDC so that it "disappears" for the second half of the rotor magnet fly-by.  So he seems to be off in the clouds, something that has happened before with him.

He is simply not realizing that the current is rising more slowly because of the motoring effect where the magnet is seriously vibrating due to the pulsing coil.  It takes power to make the magnet vibrate, and we can hear it in the clip.  That power is coming from the coil itself.

The moral of the story is this:  For any pulse motor where you are using a fixed pulse timing with a constant supply voltage, if the coil is going to push on a rotor to make it spin or do some kind of action that exports power to the outside world, then when that happens the average power consumption of the coil will go down, not up.  With no power being exported to the outside world, and ignoring the back spike, the coil does nothing except produce waste heat.  When the coil starts to do real work and export power to the outside world, and ignoring the back spike, then the average power consumption of the coil goes down, and that power is now split into useful work and waste heat.

[gotoluc]

No, if anything, the presence of an external magnetic field should interfere with the core material's normal domain flipping and effectively reduce the inductance and therefore make the current waveform rise more quickly.

Are you absolutely sure there is no possibilities of an increase in inductance when approaching a magnet to these kind of cores?

Luc