A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?

[MileHigh]

Interesting thanks OK doing math again.

He goes from 300 joules to 10.8 joules in 240 seconds. His average joules (lets give him straight line) is 82.3
Li-Ion sustains 160 joules for 3600 seconds.
82.3*240= 19752 joules per hour
160 * 3600 = 576000 Joules / hour
576000/19752=29 * times more power

Sorry I underestimated he actually needs 29 * 26 cells = 754 cells to 26 Li-Ion Cells.

Spread sheet is here.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fh_XHSwy2w3UJ6WegG9vwrQbibTzgAjStSeYzTtlf5k/edit#gid=0

Nink, I have to run off and do things so I can't check it now but think I see some problems with your text above.

>  He goes from 300 joules to 10.8 joules in 240 seconds. His average joules (lets give him straight line) is 82.3

I am not sure where you are getting the "300 joules" from.  The real way to do it is to slice the output up into vertical slices of say 10 seconds each.  You take the middle voltage and current measurement for each slice and multiply by 10 seconds to get a small amount of energy.  Then you add all of the energy values together and then take that total energy over 240 seconds and then divide by 15 to "spread it out" over one hour.  Then you take that associated average power and convert it into equivalent amp-hours at the nominal lithium-ion battery voltage of 3.6 to 3.8 volts, take your pick.

I think a straight line might be too much simplification.  If your volts and current decay in a straight line, then when you multiply the two together you do not get a straight line anymore.  So the average is probably less than you are thinking.

MileHigh

[jbignes5]

 It does make a difference if the device is not made to a standard and done in a real production way. It was an off the cuff test device that was not perfected like the already established and tested device to which he was comparing it to. It makes a huge difference to the quality of the material like separators and electrolyte like he said. Because of the water it has a terrible voltage cap. Meaning off gassing of the water as it gets electrolyzed in the process. Thats a big limitation and is the very reason they used non aqueous electrolyte in the li-ion battery. This limits the charging ability of the plates and due to the amount of substance be so great it limits the charge it can hold.


Again pay no attention to the link about the differences of li ion batteries and Caps. Seeing that it is clear what those differences are it does make a huge difference and a big difference as well.


See you rely on your cronies to do everything for you not one bit was done by you and this is my point. You are not a doer and certainly not an experimenter. You just like bashing others until they capitulate. saying some really awful stuff about people when you know nothing about them. You fling put down after put down instead of doing the work. I mean you couldn't even do the calculation yourself, how nice.

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5 I stand by everything I say and you are a fool for ignoring the obvious - RMS is making an almost-beyond-belief mistake of not accounting for the output voltage of his device when making an energy measurement.  And don't you try to impugn my character.  You are just bashing me because you know that I am right and you can't admit it.  You are no better than the long list of free energy fakers that are trying to sucker money from people by making false claims.  Ask yourself how small struggling tech companies raise new funds.  It's a rhetorical question for you to ponder.

[jbignes5]

You couldn't even do the math. I mean really? You had to get someone else to do it for you. Really? What a joke. I'm not ignoring the obvious. Anyways how do you know if it was wrong if you didn't have the math right there? Ahh thats the caveat.


Listen MH I will Tell you again like I told you before. Treating others with respect will get you a lot further then the way you bash people. What you have said right in your last statement is exactly my point! Prove that I'm a faker. Prove that I have scammed anyone out of money. You can't and I win again. Again you have shown your true colors and I don't reward indignant people with apologies. You bash and you fake your way through everything. I mean refer to my first statement here. This proves you are the sham, you are the faker and since you hide behind the great name of MILEHIGH you are the scammer. So high you head is swooning with logical fallacies and faking the ability to produce any work at all. Not one thing. Not even a patent. NOTHING, but drivel regurgitated formulas not knowing that your version of energy is invented and only a response and not the initiator. Someone makes a simple mistake and it is the end of the world. The end of your world. Sorry but new technology is here. It is being developed without your input and yes even if there are simple mistakes it doesn't invalidate the work being done.

Yes the video was about measurements which he admits were not scientific or exact right from the beginning. But the whole point to his videos is to watch them all from the beginning to know his methodology and inspiration to do and not armchair discovery. The main part was to show how simple he could make the caps and goes through that process but my guess is that the whole process is invalid because he made one little mistake. By the way his super capacitor is the same as the li ion cap I showed many times just with more natural materials and less poisonous chemicals. Obviously that doesn't make a difference to you. So when he comes out with his stuff I am sure you will think he is scamming people and not buy his device to store energy. You will cut your nose off to spite your face because maybe he made one little mistake, wow. But somehow is smarter then you who didn't come up with his ideas.


Your so ignorant of the way you come off to people. I mean really your form is sub par and so irritating to most that they just give up on this forum. You are effectively driving people away from this forum and reducing our chance to rescue this planet from the likes of you, who would rather go with poisonous materials in all the products we produce and stale old current drinking electronics. I bet you have a stake in the energy field. You must have a stake in the energy field and this forum is your way to keep value in a technology that is not sustainable in the least but you are heavily invested in. You tout that real starting businesses are loosing funding to scammers and free energy fakes and while I think there is a bit of truth to that "A BIT" you say it to garner support for your poor attitude with people on this forum. A comment was said about you trying to use more diplomacy but there is no such thing with you. If it says free it has to be a scam right? Yet the sun continues to shine and the trees continue to grow and stars continue to twinkle all for free. Our views are changing in the field of energy, get used to that. There is a shift away from current twords the potential that runs it all.


My hope for you is that you learn there is a better way to deal with people ands not all people are trying to scam others. Some actually want to help others get into this field into all of the fields and treating those people like they have no right to dignity while doing so is teaching exactly what the establishment wants you to do. Ignore everything no matter if there is a valid device or not. And thats what you do. You don't get paid by the "man" You are the "MAN". You are the reason we all are here searching for some path out of this hell you have created and are profiting on. Most people just want to live. Not to be worrying about how to feed their families or how to pay for energy. I mean if everyone had a stream behind their house who would need you? Who would be reliant on you to tell them the rules and where they could go and what they could do. You are the reason we are dying as a world. You shun the very thing that could save us all because you are living off everyone else and your cronies are doing the same. Even if this forum was the reason for you being here, why would you waste the time or effort to blow a fuse in your nut? Why would you be that interested in something you declare is a scam? Why bother at all? It's called self interest and the only self interest that will drive some one like you is a monetary fervor.


I also hope you understand why I pushed like I did. It was to show others of your intentions and the length you will go both in insults and eluding to crimes that have not been committed and that is what motivates others to fight with you. Your attitude to others is not helping in the least and maybe just maybe you would see that now. But I highly doubt you would self reflect in such a way. It would mean you need to reasses your tactics and change your approach to people.

It infuriated you that Robert deleted your posts and came here to shirk his attempt to say hey move on then. You can't do that can you. You can't let others be and let them go down their own road even when it has errors which I know Robert would have corrected himself on eventually. But see you don't know him at all and didn't take one second to try to know what he is and what he knows and what his channel is about.

[Nink]

I did not count the clock down to zero as I really do not know what happens.  I decided to  just extrapolation his previous results (he was losing .01V and 1mA every 10 seconds just before he disconnected the clock so the best I think we can do is continue with this without additional data.  That dropped amps down to zero after 300 seconds. So this gives the EESD an extra 1095 joules per cell (avg 3.65 joules for 300 seconds). 

That gives him 19752+1095=20847 Joules per cell. so the Li-Ion at 576000/20847 is still 27.6 * more power so approx 28 EESD Cells per Li-Ion Cell or 26*28-26=back to additional 702 cells.

The only way I can think to award more power is if he charged the EESD for longer.  I am not sure why he charged it for 3 minutes maybe a charge for 6 minutes will give him twice the amount of power so he only needs half that number of cells (I don't know). 

I think the best thing at this point is for RMS to do is
1) Build an EESD with the same weight as the 3.6v 1150mAh Li-Ion Battery
2) charge the EESD to max power (as long as it takes) 
3) Let the EESD run down to zero with a known load and record amps,  volts and time.  (if it takes 2 hours that is fine just time laps every 30 seconds )
4) Repeat the same experiment with the Li-Ion Battery. 

I don't think there is any point in measuring a single cell it is not accurate enough.  If RMS can get more Watt Hours from his cell of the same weight we can easily do the math.