Rotating Magnetic Field's and Inductors.

[tinman]

 author=wattsup link=topic=16261.msg469486#msg469486 date=1450995712]
@gyulasun





wattsup

4) Now, consider the ceramic magnetic influence itself can reach the 3rd turn of coil depth before it decreases to nill. When the cap is discharged, only 3 turns of the coil depth will cause the repelling reaction so the magnet does not go that far.

5) Now consider the neo magnetic influence itself can reach all the way across the 10 turns of coil depth and even further out before it reaches the same strength as the ceramic magnet. When the cap is discharged, every active layer and turn in the coil is now taking full part in repelling the neo hence it moves out further away.

There is a problem with that analogy wattsup--can you work out what it is ?.

To do this experiment, you do not need a coil. All you need is some stout wire turned in a one layer spiral and mounted on a solid backing where either magnet can sit against the one layer coil hence the coil depth factor would not be of concern.

The results would be the same.


Brad

[tinman]

I dug this out of your manual before. Here it is once more...

Most scopes use the terms "Mean" and "Cycle Mean". Yours uses "Mean" and "Vavg" respectively.

When using "Mean", either you have an exact whole number of cycles on the display, or a great number of cycles, say 10 or more. If you do not use a whole number of cycles or a large number of cycles, then the mean value displayed may not be accurate.

Ah ,ok
Thanks Poynt for clearing that up.
So it would seem that the input current-once again,did rise when the rotor was removed,as the average value over the 1 ohm CVR went up,which is also what my DMM showed when i tried it again with the DMM across the CVR.

Brad.

[wattsup]

wattsup
There is a problem with that analogy wattsup--can you work out what it is ?.
The results would be the same. Brad

@tinman

Besides the pulsed coil suffering from the infernal HCS which I did not want to get into here, no, I think it is pretty close to the effect seen. Don't know for sure if the results would be the same or not, but my guess with a pulse to a stout spiral coil would be that the ceramic will go further out but the neo will always win.

But, I would have liked to see that demo doing eight trials, one from each pole of the two magnets then reverse the pulse polarities going to the coil and repeat. With those eight results we would have possibly seen proof of something even more extraordinary. OK so would the effect be the same when using either pole of those magnets? What would that show? That's the main problem, experiments that do not go deep enough where a few more tests could expand the effect questioning base by many.

Psst. I got my new longer cores and have made 3 new coils for a next HCS vid after I start playing with it to get to know and repeat the effects seen.

About the "useful work ethic of magnets" thing is the question is loaded. Does copper wire do useful work? Does the core do useful work? Does the battery do useful work? Can electricity do useful work? Is it the electricity doing the work or is it the generator producing the electricity that is doing all of the real work or is it the motive energy going to the generator that is the real star of the show?

All of them would answer no "when used alone" but when combined, their inter-effects produce useful work so anyone stating that magnets cannot do useful work is right only when the magnet is alone, which it never is in all our devices, so by consequence the answer has to be "YES, when combined with other useless objects to form one functional system". But may I recommend disembarking from this line of thinking since the main discussion will always be a hen or egg first dilemma. The Earth core is a magnet (which is basically a gravity source) all alone in the Universe so does it do useful work. Hope so for all of our sakes.

If those test magnets did the same fly off effect from either sides of the magnet while the pulse polarity stayed the same or was reversed, then the magnet is doing some useful work since the capacitor discharge into the coil is not producing a specific polarized impulse but non-polarized atomic spin that usually starts from a latent non energized position. But with the magnet placed beside the coil, the magnet will rebias the copper atoms to a new orientation thus forcing the atoms to spin in a greater momentum when the cap discharges. So the magnet has to be doing work just by being there as the atomic rebias does not have any polarization preferences and that experiment would have shown this with eight trials instead of only two. Of course for those espousing the field/electron concept will beg to differ because for them, the atom is just another stupid piece of junk that cannot do anything without a field impress magically inciting electron movement. I'll stop here and sorry for interjecting into your thread.

Ah, three more days off, so more days on the bench. Life is good.
Merriness to all. hohoho

wattsup

PS: When you answered my question about how AC works, do you realize that your answer, which is the typical EE stance is not possible. hahaha Actually with the invention of AC, Tesla single handedly proves that current and electron flow is impossible but no one ever made that link, or, they choose to ignore it and keep that dream alive. Maybe Tesla knew this from the beginning but did not want to bring any undue attention to this since he was far too beholding to his money barons during his inventive haydays.

[MileHigh]

Wattsup:

I am not going to challenge or debate you about your theory, but since you brought it up I will just give you my take on what you are seeing:  When you excite your coil with AC it effectively becomes a form of voltage divider with maximum AC voltage at one end and no AC voltage at the ground end.  The tape head is very sensitive and the AC voltage at a given point on the coil projects an AC electric field in the immediate vicinity of the coil and elsewhere.  There is a corresponding tiny AC magnetic field associated with the AC voltage field and the tape head picks that up.

Brad:

I can summarize what's going on with your pulse motor experiment:  If you pulse a coil with a fixed pulse length and a constant DC voltage and the coil does mechanical work, then the energy required to pulse the coil will be less than if the coil does no mechanical work.  I explained exactly why that is here:

http://overunity.com/16167/sharing-ideas-on-how-to-make-a-more-efficent-motor-using-flyback-moderated/msg469401/#msg469401

Here is the supporting graphic compliments of Verpies:

http://overunity.com/16167/sharing-ideas-on-how-to-make-a-more-efficent-motor-using-flyback-moderated/msg469405/#msg469405

So, let's look at the case with the "coil pulses the magnet" test:  The coil will draw the highest energy per pulse when there is no magnet.  The coil will draw less energy when it pulses the light ceramic magnet that moves a short distance.  The coil will draw even less energy when it pulses the heavy neo magnet that moves a long distance.

Again, the way it works is that for a fixed length pulse of a fixed voltage, less energy is drawn by the coil when it exports energy to the outside world.

How that relates to your pulse motor is that when there is no rotor and you feed it a pulse train of fixed length and voltage, it draws a certain amount of average power.  When you put the rotor in place, the coil is now exporting power to the outside world and therefore it draws less average power.

There is no "useful work" being done by the magnets, there is no "conversion of heat into useful work or electrical power" or "manifestation of 'magnetic energy.'"

The only thing that is really happening when you add the rotor is that the average electro-mechanical impedance of the system goes up and therefore the system draws less power.

MileHigh

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=16261.msg469526#msg469526 date=1451084638]
Wattsup:

Brad:

I can summarize what's going on with your pulse motor experiment:  If you pulse a coil with a fixed pulse length and a constant DC voltage and the coil does mechanical work, then the energy required to pulse the coil will be less than if the coil does no mechanical work.  I explained exactly why that is here:

http://overunity.com/16167/sharing-ideas-on-how-to-make-a-more-efficent-motor-using-flyback-moderated/msg469401/#msg469401

Here is the supporting graphic compliments of Verpies:

http://overunity.com/16167/sharing-ideas-on-how-to-make-a-more-efficent-motor-using-flyback-moderated/msg469405/#msg469405

So, let's look at the case with the "coil pulses the magnet" test:  The coil will draw the highest energy per pulse when there is no magnet.  The coil will draw less energy when it pulses the light ceramic magnet that moves a short distance.  The coil will draw even less energy when it pulses the heavy neo magnet that moves a long distance.

Again, the way it works is that for a fixed length pulse of a fixed voltage, less energy is drawn by the coil when it exports energy to the outside world.

How that relates to your pulse motor is that when there is no rotor and you feed it a pulse train of fixed length and voltage, it draws a certain amount of average power.  When you put the rotor in place, the coil is now exporting power to the outside world and therefore it draws less average power.

There is no "useful work" being done by the magnets, there is no "conversion of heat into useful work or electrical power" or "manifestation of 'magnetic energy.'"

The only thing that is really happening when you add the rotor is that the average electro-mechanical impedance of the system goes up and therefore the system draws less power.

MileHigh

MH
I do not believe that is what is happening.
If i change out the magnets for say laminated core pieces,would that have the same effect?.
And why is the effect not the same when the magnets are just stationary in front of the coil if the magnets are only changing the electro-mechanical impedance of the system?. Also-how dose this work that is being done by the coil on the rotor avoid detection of the measuring equipment-->in fact,the measuring equipment says less work is being done,and yet on the output side,our equipment says more work is being done.. What if i measure the voltage across the coil with and without the rotor,and the voltage remains the same?. The thing is MH,the voltage would be higher across the coil when the rotor is in place,because the current is lower. The measurements show that less work is being done when the rotor is in place,but the measurements also show that more work has been done as far as the output go's.

What if i were to place a temp probe into the core,and i take temperature readings with and without the rotor in play. What situation would produce more heat in the core of the coil-with or without the rotor?. You may think that the temperature would rise without the rotor in play,as there would be more current flowing through the coil. But we have to remember that the magnets would create heat in the core due to eddy currents,so i would think that the heat produced by the coil would remain the same--if not more heat would be produced with the rotor in play--then what?.

Today,i will carry out some more tests at a higher frequency,and these tests will be as follows.

First i get a pulse motor up and running.
I let it settle at it's !!happy!! speed,so as the system is stable. I then get an accurate frequency,pulse width, and amplitude on the base of the transistor(this will not be hard,as i can get a perfect square wave on the base of the transistor)--along with a stable supply voltage. I then stop the pulse motor,and remove the rotor.
I set my FG to the exact frequency,pulse width(duty cycle),and amplitude to that of what we had on the pulse motor. So in reality,the only thing we will be changing is the fact that one will have the external alternating magnetic field's,and one will not-as before in the other tests. I will even go to the trouble of making a new core out of laminated transformer steel(seems to be better than the steel rods),and putting a temp probe in the core,and we can have a look at core temperature as well.

I should get this done today,but first i will have to head into town,and get some more supplies.


Brad.