Looks Like OU Senior Member Avalon Has DONE IT! New Video!

[picowatt]

PW
I'M personally not even on that fence yet,everything around this part of the world
Is here due to the space program and the scquillions it pumped into the local economys

But there is something odd about the moon and the lack of exploration there.
Maybe Brad should start small ,send a robot to one of the landing sites ?

See the evidence and gain some experience (space exploration)

As a matter of fact...!!!!
I betya there are enuff naysayers and america haters globally to finance such an endevour
In a heart beat...
We could absolutely muster the talent for such an open source project
Besides having a good look at the back side of the moon

We could ping it and see if it rings
We could look back and take a picture of the globe ,for flat earthers

gotta market to the whole crowd ??

Just one mans opinion

Although I have some degree of respect for Tinman, I won't be holding my breath waiting for data from his lunar rover missions.

Even with state funding, historically, it has been no easy task...

But regarding this comment of yours:

But there is something odd about the moon and the lack of exploration there.

I would, for the most part, agree with you.  It does seem a bit odd...

But then there is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#Bush_administration

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8489097.stm

And just 'cause its interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_manned_lunar_programs


PW

[tinman]

Do you have some memory problems or is it something else?  I had to deal with the same type of issue with you over and over when debating your pulse motor and it gets very frustrating.

And it was a debate you lost in the end,along with some very !self acclaimed! smart guy's.

Picowatt is an engineer's engineer.  I have never gotten the vibe that you are an engineer.

There are active engineer's,and passive engineer's.
I am an active mechanical engineer.
Do you know the difference between the two MH?-->im guessing not.

You really would not be able to make a lunar rover yourself.

And you know this how?.
You know very little about me,and you have based your judgement only on what you have seen me do-->just like you have based your judgement on the moon landings by what NASA has shown you.
The difference being--one you need to believe in,and the other you need not to believe in. You make me laugh MH-->you have just made two opposite judgement's on two different thing's,based around what you have been shown or seen so far lol.

It would take something like a team of 50 engineers a few years and an ecosystem of subcontractors and support facilities to make a lunar rover.  Just a wild guess that is most likely in the ballpark.

Absolute rubbish.
You think all this is needed just because the temperature may reach 150*C,and that the vehicle will be operating in a vacuum?.

You have been sucked in to the world of bullshit,and that is very obvious now.


Brad

[Nink]

Here is a starter video for those who have not seen it.
A funny thing happened on the way to the moon.   
https://youtu.be/xciCJfbTvE4?t=493

Or my favorite one swear on the bible you walked on the moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbpWaDL4Zc

[tinman]

The error is a bit larger, I believe there was something north of a dozen rovers made and even more multiples of some parts and sub-assemblies.  Some of those were used for destructive and non-destructive testing.

The actual cost to build each rover was minimal and relatively insignificant, it was the engineering, testing, and certification that was the bulk of the cost.

If you decide to build a moon rover today you would of course have the advantage of modern hardware that is available, but even more so, you would know about conditions on the lunar surface and have some actual data taken from previous operation on the moon during the Apollo missions.

But just consider some of the thermodynamic requirements.  For example, what will be the minimum and maximum temperatures experienced by the wheels and drive motors?  How are you going to lube the motor and wheel bearings?  What lubricant will you use that will not boil off in a vacuum at the expected maximum temperature?  Will you attempt to hermetically seal the bearings, which is more difficult, poses additional engineering hurdles, and may make some seals mission and life critical, or will you allow them to vent/breathe as the bearings and lubricants experience the vacuum and extreme temperature variations?  How will you cool the motors as heat builds during operation?  Besides being exposed to the already extreme temperatures, how much heat will you need to dissipate from the drive electronics and just exactly how will you get rid of that heat in a vacuum?  What batteries will you use?  How do those batteries function in a vacuum and in the temperature extremes they will experience? 

Consider some of the mechanical requirements.  What sort of wheel design will you use?  How will you test those wheels to ensure they will not fatigue and break during operation?  How many wheels/tires will you need to make for destructive and non-destructive testing?  What will those test parameters be?  What sort of suspension will you use?  Of what design will the suspension damper be?  Will the damper use oil?  How will that oil perform during min/max temperature operation?  How will you seal those dampers, and how will those seals perform in the environmental extremes?  How will you determine and test the damper requirements when operated in the reduced gravity of the moon?  How abrasive is moon dust and how will you deal with that?  What sort of suspension bearings or bushings will you use?  How will they handle the extreme environment?  How will they handle the lunar dust?   

Also, keep in mind you must meet weight, size, range and load carrying requirements, with the total weight including seats, cameras, antennas, and all electronics and cooling hardware.  As well, you must engineer some simple method of containment and deployment that will allow suited astronauts to safely unload and unfold your rover.

And when you are done building it, the lives of two astronauts may depend on your rover performing as required, so you will need to certify it.  You will likely want to fully instrument things like wheel and steering motors and bearings for real time monitoring of temperature and vibration analysis.  You will need to monitor drive motor and battery current and have warnings and protections in place for all critical systems.  You will need to analyze various failure modes and provide redundancies or bypasses that will allow some degree of limp home operation during as many failure scenarios as possible.  You will also need to test everything in a suitable environmental chamber and as well perform shake and bake tests.  Of course, some scientists and engineers are going to have to provide data like G forces, vibration rates, directional axes and temperature/heat loading data so you know what the parameters of those tests need to be.   

For you to trivialize the engineering required to build a lunar rover only demonstrates an ignorance of the difficulties that task presents, the research and engineering required, and the marvel of engineering the lunar rovers truly were, particularly given the era in which they were built. 

As I have previously stated, I have always enjoyed your experimentation and willingness to share, but as of late, a cynicism towards scientists and engineers has crept within your soul that clouds your vision and closes your mind.

PW
     

A lovely long post PW,and you have made it look like building a lunar rover would be an enormous feat. But this is where people start to get fooled into believing that the cost's are justified. Every question you have asked in regards as to !how or what! is very basic stuff,and i will take the time tonight when i finish work, to answer every question you asked. But let's have a look at a couple of them right now,so as you start to see that it really is not as difficult as you are trying to make it out to be. If you are an engineer as MH claim's,then the questions you have asked,you should be able to answer your self.

1-How are you going to lube the motor and wheel bearings?
As i have worked in the the dairy construction industry for many years,and been the designer and installer of high end vacuum system's of milking machine's,i can tell you right now that there need not be anything special about bearings or motors that operate in high vacuum and high temperature environment. It is all about pressure differentials,and making sure that there is no pressure difference between the inside and outside of the bearing's. When this is done,then no lubricant will flow out of the bearings. Why do you believe that there is a difference between a bearing running in 1 atmosphere as they do here on earth,and the vacuum of space?. Bearings self equalize,if they did not,then they would blow all the lubricant out when they heated up,and the air inside them expanded--but as we know,they do not do this. So to answer your question,we simply use good quality bearings. We can test this quit accurately in a vacuum chamber,but im sure (being the engineer that MH claims you are)that this will not be needed.

2-Of what design will the suspension damper be.
Funny thing you should ask this question,as suspension is exactly what i do for a living these days.
Do you think that the shock absorber has to be anything special?--if so,why?
Think about pressure differentials again,and think about the pressure differentials between the inside and outside that shock absorber see's when in an off road vehicle going at speed over rough terrain. The shock absorber-or damper as you call it,is already designed to cope with extreme pressure differentials. Being that the vehicle will weigh 1/6th of that that it would here on earth,and the lunar terrain is an unknown,then i would use a negative up-positive down adjustable shock absorber. With a simple twist of a knob,the astronaut's can then adjust the damper rate of the shockie to suit the terrain of the lunar surface. If we are to stick with 60's tech,then we can use the design of old,and run the twist cables right up to the control panel of the lunar rover,so as the astronauts can adjust the damper rate on the fly. Did the lunar rovers take this into consideration?-did they have adjustable damper rate's,so as they could adjust the shock absorbers to suit !the yet to be known! lunar surface?-->i dont think so.How did they know the dampers would be suited to the lunar terrain if they were yet to find out what that terrain was?. Like i said,i could build twice the machine on half the budget.

I will answer the rest of your questions tonight.


Brad

[AlienGrey]

Hi Tin man and Ram, some one sent me this link, i think you should cast your eyes over it !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MISUnX--Pok