Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)

[guest1289]

I would draw a diagram of the idea I posted earlier,  of the Radial-Electrophorus,  which works on a wheel,  but I won't be able to.
    Obviously the idea is simply using a  partial-spiral  set on the rim of a wheel,  or, set like a stator near the wheel,  and it would be either the bottom,  or top of the  traditional-Electrophorus.
     The other component,  set on the wheel,   or,   set like a stator near the wheel,  would be either the bottom,  or top of the  traditional-Electrophorus.
    HOWEVER - It would strongly rely on the width of the wheel( not the diameter of the wheel ), because the wider the wheel,  the more charge it could hold.

   But to know if this idea would have any potential,  I would need to know if  an Electrophorus  could function if it was shaped like  2 very long wooden-planks , parallel to each other,  one plank being the bottom of the  traditional-Electrophorus,  and the other plank being the  top,   
and,   obviously if there's any chance it could function without the the 2 planks actually touching  each other,  instead,  just by using a very-very narrow space gap,   at the point in the cycle where they are supposed to touch each other.
(  And,   doesn't the  Electrophorus lose it's charge over  time ,   if so,  then maybe a  re-charging component would have to be built into the wheel                                        )

   ( The  Electrophorus  seems to be an  electrical-current-pump,  like a water pump in a loop,  since it doesn't actually generate any electrical-charge.   I wonder if it is the only electrical-current-pump,  or are devices like  wimhurst machines and similar devices also  electrical-current-pumps  )

   Now I can't actually remember specifically what a  Radial-Electrophorus  could be useful for,  maybe a replacement for one of the devices that already used an Electrophorus

[conradelektro]

I would draw a diagram of the idea I posted earlier,  of the Radial-Electrophorus,  which works on a wheel,  but I won't be able to.
    Obviously the idea is simply using a  partial-spiral  set on the rim of a wheel,  or, set like a stator near the wheel,  and it would be either the bottom,  or top of the  traditional-Electrophorus.
..........

@guest1289:

All electrostatic generators (besides the ones which use the triboelectric effect which are called friction machines) are a variation of the electrophorus. The up and down movement of the top plate was turned into plates that move past each other at high speed.

It is always the charge separation principle.

One could take the top plate and move it at a small distance over the acrylic plate, e.g. from left to right. First it is on the left side of the acrylic plate, then it starts to cover the acrylic plate till it is exactly over the acrylic plate, and then it uncovers the acrylic plate till it is completely at the right side of the acrylic plate. And doing this is already very close to a Whimshorst machine.

So, there are many designs one could come up with. And people came up with many designs in the 19th century.

In one way you are right, the electrophorus has some similarity with a pump. But electricity can not be pumped, so it is just a faulty mental image. A metaphor hardly ever works.


What I want to do:

- explore the alternating current nature of the electrophorus a bit deeper

- explore the electret a bit deeper; at the moment I am using an acrylic plate, but I want an electret that can be charged up better; I would not mind if the electret looses its charge after a few days

- explore the use of diodes and transistors in order to leed out the charge in a better way and to step it down to a useful Voltage of e.g. 3 Volt or 12 Volt

And only then I want to think about a design other than the electrophorus, like in the direction of a Whimshurst machine (plates turning fast).

For what I want to do next, a simple crank mechanism (driven with an electric motor) is good enough. I just need a uniform (not even fast) up and down movement of the top plate to do some further research.

At the monent I am studying basic principle questions, not the design of a useful generator. I have to admit, that some basic concepts (in connection with electrostaic generators) are still not clear enough in my mind. That has to be rectified first.

It is a hobby, a learning curve, and not a business venture. I do not have finacial interests any more because I can not take anything with me when I die. And being old makes death a reality.

Greetings, Conrad

[TinselKoala]

A 50-50 mixture of rosin (like is used for violin bows or solder flux) and carnauba wax, melted together and cast into a mold, allowed to cool while under the influence of an electric field (as between plates that are charged to some kV of voltage) , will make an excellent electret for your experiments.


TK's modified Moore's Dirod and TK-Enhanced Franklin ES motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqf3bUL4YqE

[conradelektro]

@TinselKoala

I got Moore's book about the Dirod but never managed to build one.

In an old book I found the following mixturen for a cake:

33% rosin
33% carnauba wax
33% bee wax

I got a 30 KV power supply and will try the charging while the cake cools down.

Greetings, Conrad

[telecom]

I gave the answer in one of my posts above, but I repeat it here:

-----------------------------------

An now the "charge separation" principle has to be understood, because it is which makes the current flow out of the low Voltage "pre-charge" (in my contraption it is about 3 Volt) by becoming a high Voltage (several thousand Volts) when lifting the top plate.

Hi, you already getting thousands of volts, not 3 V, right in the beginning, see this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MovlfZK7aO4





The energy is put in by lifting the top plate against the attraction force between the negatively charged top plate and the positively charged acrylic plate surface.

No its already there from the beginning
------------------------------------


Greetings, Conrad


Putting aside  rites about positive/negative, its operation mostly related to the Casimir effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

Regards