MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[MileHigh]

No such voltage or inductor exist--not even close.

The fact is MH,and this is an absolute fact,you cannot back up your answer with a real world test to show you are correct.
There is no such thing as an ideal inductor,nor is there any such thing as an ideal voltage.

An ideal inductor has no resistance,and inductance it self produces resistance-a resistance to the change in current. So an ideal inductor dose not exist for that very reason,and there for your question cannot be answered-well maybe in MH fairy land.

An ideal voltage also dose not exist. There is no device that can provide an infinite amount of current to maintain an ideal voltage across a dead short that is also ideal-being a short that will never collapse under any load.

Brad

A real inductor can be 99.99% identical to an ideal inductor.  Ideal voltage sources exist right now within certain limitations.  A good bench power supply is an ideal voltage source.  A car audio amplifier is an ideal voltage source that can output The Star Spangled Banner as an ideal voltage.  I explain that all on the other thread.

The real-world test can easily be done as explained on the other thread.  The only limitation is that the real-world inductor will behave a tiny smidgen differently from the ideal inductor.

You are just making phony dismissive arguments that take you off track.  The point of the exercise is perfectly clear:  To understand how an inductor works.

[tinman]

  The way you have to "see it" is to use your intellect to understand how an inductor works.

  The only question is what do you do?  Do you stick it out and refuse to explore other options until at the end you are spoon fed the answer?  If you agree the answer is correct then you will have a rather embarrassing little apology to offer up.  Or, do you do what I suggested to you:  Assume for the sake of argument that I am right and for your own benefit start working and researching so that you come to a complete understanding on your own?   Which of the two scenarios do you think will ultimately be better for you?

The sim will work perfectly and I am glad that you don't want to see it.

I think you will find that it will not,well at least it did not on the thread i read on OUR.
Poynt had to add a resistance in series with the ideal inductor,and as your question dose not include a resistance,then the sim must represent your ideal inductor that has no resistance.

You are clearly still stuck like glue to your mistake.

As you ,nor anyone else has proven that i have made a mistake,then my answer stands-you cannot connect an ideal voltage across an ideal inductor.


Brad

[partzman]

Considering a sim to provide an answer here is a good thing because all simulators I've used will not allow an inductor with zero resistance. Some low value will be assigned if the operator fails to fill in the blank.  So, what we have to consider is what happens as the resistance approaches zero.

For example, what will the current be at T=0 when we apply the assumed ideal voltage source of 4 volts to the 5 henry inductance with a dc resistance of 1 ohm? Will it be 4 amps?  How about .01 ohm, will it be 400 amps or?  How about 1e-10 ohms, will it be 4e10 amps?

Looking at the problem from another angle, if we assume we had somehow achieved a current level of 2.4 amps in our ideal inductor with zero resistance and we then shorted it with a perfect conductor having zero resistance, what happens to the inductor current?

partzman

[MileHigh]

Somebody has already posted on this thread very recently how an ideal inductor behaves.  I am sure that you can sense that Poynt is in agreement with me.

The best course of action for you would be to understand what inductance really is an how it behaves.  You are arguing that there is a radical discontinuity between how an ideal inductor behaves and a real-word inductor with a 0.0000000001 ohm wire resistance behaves.  Nature does not like discontinuities at all.  Just that fact should get you thinking again and hopefully find you going in the right direction.

"Nature does not like discontinuities at all."

[MileHigh]

I am really surprised that a sim program would balk at an ideal inductor but if that's the case there must be a circuit condition where there is a problem.  However, in my my example I can't see the sim encountering a problem like a divide-by-zero error or whatever.